E-Trac and V3i - Some head to head videos on deeper targets.

[earthmansurfer]

(Deeper in my soil and measured with a tape measure!) Each Video is only 3 minutes and edited. Settings given as well as Coins VDI readings out of ground. Longer swings are kind of hard as the ground is a bit trashy in places, but I did it where possible. I hope to improve on these videos so Comments appreciated.

Thx,
Albert

I recommend you go full screen. Really watch the screens and catch the sounds. 3 Videos .

1st Video is on an 8 copper/bronze coin.
E-Trac & V3i on 8inch coin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KRsECH_TNE#)

2nd Video is on a 9 lead ball.
E-Trac & V3i on 9inch deep lead ball - 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQzguuy65hg#ws)

3rd Video is on a 7 zinc coin.
E-Trac & V3i on 7inch deep Zinc - 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVDDANJ5LCs#ws)

[CyberSage]

Very nice comparisons Albert. I know it is very time consuming to do this kind of testing in the field, but the results really do provide some great information. Thanks for your efforts. Your exacting methodology certainly lends credibility to the comparisons. I am still frozen solid here, but looking forward to contributing some V3 / E-Trac field comparisons in the coming months. I would be interested in 7.5kHz single frequency example along with the E-Trac on the same target. I only did a few comparisons before the great freeze, :frozen: but I found that the 7.5 responded well in situations where the V3 would not see the target reliably in 3 frequency. I have a 5 year old coin garden at my house, and will probably start my comparisons there. Thanks again for your efforts Albert.

Jack

[rsarge1]

awesome videos you also showed me that the e-trac is picking up some things better than the v makes me want to give the e-trac a try over ares i've gone over before with my v but first i need to find the needed funds to buyh one LOL .

[earthmansurfer]

Thanks Guys,

Jack, the next test will be as you said, in single frequency. I was actually first going to do 2.5kHz as I thought it might cut through the iron mineralized ground first. Then I'll try the other two, thanks for that. I also have to try lowering the recovery delay - alot. One thing I learned is to be very careful with correlate. I found that it my testing at times but was always able to tweak it to get a better signal. But now in the field it has enlightened me. It still should run better than best data with all the iron and iron mineralization though.

I know others have problem in iron mineralized ground with their V3i's as well. So perhaps I can find a resolution. I would have walked past those first two targets. I see others going deep with the V3i so I'd like to work out what was wrong, again, I think it's the ground.

I got snowed on hard during filming. It came from no where! Was kind of funny. Now the below freezing temps are coming. Too bad. Not sure I can hunt in weather that cold...

Thx,
Albert

[earthmansurfer]

Here you go Jack. I think you'll like this one better. It was a better target (aluminum/Bronze) coin at 8 inches, in relatively clean ground (just that small spot), that reads the same (1% mineralized at VDI -91 to -93).

I compared best data with correlate (briefly) and then tried 2.5, 7.5 and 22.5. What was interesting and I mention it in the video, is that in pinpoint the coin was strongest in 7.5 (not by much) but the 22.5 picked it up best imo.

The other focus of the video was VDI Stability.

Enjoy,
Albert

E Trac & V3i on 8inch Copper Bronze coin VDI Consistency V3i Frequency Compare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGyXipFmUo#)

[MartinL]

Any reason you chose a RD of 70 on the V3i? I have to wonder if the 22.5 freq hit better with the faster RD factored in, along win a faster sweep speed. Our soils might be drastically different, but I am far more inclined to run my recovery delay at 90-110 on the V3i when using the 10&quot:grin:2 coil. Just wondering what you'd get by varying the RD slower on the same target. martin

[earthmansurfer]

Martin - The first videos were with a RD of 90. Here in Europe the ground has more iron in general and 110 is a bit slow. In Europe - Some people with the V3i run a RD with the stock coil very very low like at 50! With correlate on a higher RD seems to benefit finds by giving the machine more time to look at the target. If you notice the V3i had problems with the target at the initial swing, with that swing there was iron to the left and you could see that. If anything, a slower recovery delay is in order and that is actually my plan. The place I am hunting is just to large to up it to 110 and hit it really slow. I go medium slow to medium minus and that is all I can handle.

I dropped the RD to 70 because from all of my testing (look at my past V3i only videos), running outside of correlate with a moderately trashy ground requires a slower delay (faster recovery speed). I say outside of correlate because on many of the deeper signals, best data is better than correlate. I have the span at 35 and ran it as wide as 45, and have tested it with success down to 25 - so I picked a middle ground.

The problem I am experiencing (not really a problem) is that people say Why didn't you try this... Well, if you think of the V3i and all it's controls, it just isn't humanly possible. I found one deep coin yesterday in 8 hours of hunting! I'd like to do more testing, but am I searching for that magic combination or maybe is the E-Trac just a bit more consistent in my ground? The problem would be if I didn't have the E-Trac to compare signals against, because then how would I have ever known? It's clear to me a test garden is not exactly the same and burying a fresh coin clearly isn't, though it aids with filter selection.

I will say on coins I have found down to 7, the V3i hits them VERY well for the most part. But beyond that it gets iffy, with one caveat. I checked the signal on the 7 silver coin ring I found and the V3i hit it hard, like it was shallow. I know it would have picked it up much deeper.

Thanks for your comments though. I do keep them in mind and usually try out what people suggest,
Albert

[Big Boys Hobbies]

The problem I am experiencing (not really a problem) is that people say Why didn't you try this... Well, if you think of the V3i and all it's controls, it just isn't humanly possible.

As a dealer that is the major complaint about the V3i. Many guys are tired of programing their machine for all the different situations. They just want to get out and hunt. The E-Trac adapts to every situation so much easier.

[CyberSage]

Thanks for the follow up Albert. Glad your still able to get out and dig.




As a dealer that is the major complaint about the V3i. Many guys are tired of programing their machine for all the different situations. They just want to get out and hunt. The E-Trac adapts to every situation so much easier.


I think this may possibly be one of the biggest misconceptions about the V3/V3i. Just because it has the ability to be customized in many, many ways, does not mean that a lot of adjustments are necessary to be successful in your hunts. I agree the V3/V3i is very intimidating at first look, but the reality is there is really only 4 or 5 adjustments combined with any one of the preloaded programs that will put you on the money. Once you have configured a program for a location, it's turn on and go. 95 percent of my areas across the front range of Colorado are very similar, so there is very little variation in program adjustments. I usually just configure sensitivity, and recovery speed.
I do really enjoy the simplicity of the E-Trac, and without a doubt it is the coin killer. That being said, I still had to make 4 or 5 adjustments to get where I wanted to be. When you move into a high end machine making adjustments go with the territory. I just don't buy the concept that the V3/V3i is that difficult out of the box for the average user. It's not a starter machine, but then again neither is the E-Trac.

Jack

[earthmansurfer]

Jack and Bart, I can agree with both of your points. First Bart, I think many people feel that since there are so many settings, you can always say (as I said), did you try this or that. And people carry that over to the forums. I did as well but through testing I haven't found a magic bullet. But, what I have found and posted in the past is what Jack has said.

The biggest danger I have found is the filters. But even then changing the filters (in my ground) from 5 band to 5 high, to 7.5 band to 10 band all picked up a 7 coin! I can swing in 5 band fast (as in the video) and it works great! I think the machine is quite forgiving. I'm just starting to think the E-Trac, in my ground (that is key) is just better on deeper coins. I'm not giving up, just saying thus far.

Even though the V3i has a plethora of settings, to get it right is not that tough. I have played with the recovery delay from 20 to 110 and picked up coins with no problem. 20 isn't very usable with the stock, but it worked. I have similarly been amazed with the V3i's sensitivity disc. A lot of the settings I changed and it just didn't matter much. Even on the E-Trac. I found deep on doesn't seem to help with deep targets (I have only dug to 9, maybe beyond that it does do something.) Fast off clips the signal and I have not lost one target (from testing in the field) by switching from fast on to fast off (on targets down to 9 and in iron) WITH Trash Density on High.

I really do hope that the future E-Trac incorporates some things from the V3i and vice versa. Most notably on the E-Trac would be: V3i like buttons, screen - backlight, shortcuts (e.g. - to last adjusted setting, that makes things easy), etc. they both have great features.

Nice thread,
Albert

[MartinL]

Martin - The first videos were with a RD of 90. Here in Europe the ground has more iron in general and 110 is a bit slow. In Europe - Some people with the V3i run a RD with the stock coil very very low like at 50! With correlate on a higher RD seems to benefit finds by giving the machine more time to look at the target. If you notice the V3i had problems with the target at the initial swing, with that swing there was iron to the left and you could see that. If anything, a slower recovery delay is in order and that is actually my plan. The place I am hunting is just to large to up it to 110 and hit it really slow. I go medium slow to medium minus and that is all I can handle.

I dropped the RD to 70 because from all of my testing (look at my past V3i only videos), running outside of correlate with a moderately trashy ground requires a slower delay (faster recovery speed). I say outside of correlate because on many of the deeper signals, best data is better than correlate. I have the span at 35 and ran it as wide as 45, and have tested it with success down to 25 - so I picked a middle ground.

The problem I am experiencing (not really a problem) is that people say Why didn't you try this... Well, if you think of the V3i and all it's controls, it just isn't humanly possible. I found one deep coin yesterday in 8 hours of hunting! I'd like to do more testing, but am I searching for that magic combination or maybe is the E-Trac just a bit more consistent in my ground? The problem would be if I didn't have the E-Trac to compare signals against, because then how would I have ever known? It's clear to me a test garden is not exactly the same and burying a fresh coin clearly isn't, though it aids with filter selection.

I will say on coins I have found down to 7, the V3i hits them VERY well for the most part. But beyond that it gets iffy, with one caveat. I checked the signal on the 7 silver coin ring I found and the V3i hit it hard, like it was shallow. I know it would have picked it up much deeper.

Thanks for your comments though. I do keep them in mind and usually try out what people suggest,
Albert


Thank you for your time and effort in all of this, your videos align with my 7+ concerns with the V3i. I don't have an Etrac, so your work here is definitely appreciated. The RD question I asked previously is now also one of the last things I consider to be any particular gotcha. I watch all of your videos. martin

[midas]

Thanks for the great videos. Very informative. Both machines will do the job. Just depends on what you're used to. I use the V3i with great success on getting the deep coins 9 inches + in between trash/iron. I tried the Etrac, but for me the Etrac is very confusing. It constantly signals everything in the ground with it's sing songy tones and FeCo numbers jumping all over the place. The V3i signals are easier to understand. Minelab - how about a numerical depth reading and icons in addition to FeCo numbers and a bigger screen? Both manufacturers should reduce the weight of the machines. No reason they should weigh almost 5 pounds each. I have hipmounted my V3i, not possible with the Etrac. With the V3i and the Etrac, I don't know of any experienced users hunting in the factory preset programs. ALL have adjusted settings and tweeked their machines for maximum performance. Please keep the videos coming, they are very interesting to watch.

[earthmansurfer]

Your welcome Martin and thanks for the words Midas.

Martin - I will try out a RD of 50 and 110 on Monday, just to cover all the bases. After that I think I'm done with the V3i and E-Trac comparisons. I'll then make a few with my Omega 8000.

Midas - I really love the V3i - especially the screen, 3 freq pinpoint, controls, shortcuts for adjusting the last used setting, etc. Wow - 9inch + coins. 9 inch has been my max so far but I know I'll get past that with a silver or copper. Would be curious about your ground (using proble) and setup if you can basically say what it is?
Just to offer another perspective with the E-Tracs sounds - When I first watched videos I thought How the heck can anyone understand those? It sounded so weird, not like a beep, longer. Then I got one and within a week I saw the advantage (for me). Hard to describe but it's sort of like a mini all metal mode in a specified window size. The jumpy numbers are really only with the Fe numbers. If you see jumps but consistent CO readings, that is often a dig me. On most other detectors that same jump would be iffy CO numbers (which is what I experience on deeper coins with my V3i.). I mean I have had CO numbers in my soil on 9 coins that move maybe +- 3! Anyway, I do hear what you are saying. Everyone has a different preference. And Hey, whomever comes out with a deep and light machine first, I'm jumping ship! I have a feeling Minelab will have a new machine later this year and you never know when White's offers another upgrade for the V3i. Oh, you can just get an extension cable for the E-Trac and detach the part you normally hold and put it over your shoulder. I saw pics and it was ok looking. I just keep the rod very short and swing at my feet, switching arms after a few hours.

Thanks again,
Albert

[ssserena]

As a dealer that is the major complaint about the V3i. Many guys are tired of programing their machine for all the different situations. They just want to get out and hunt. The E-Trac adapts to every situation so much easier.

[ssserena]

so true!

[POKIE73]

i have a good freind that has the v3i on any given day one of us i use a e trac will better the other he does well and so do i i belive they are close to together maybe the e trac has a little better silver ratio but other than that in the right hands they seem equal dennis

[ssserena]

don get me wrong dennis the v3iis a good nickel and jewelry machine but if your after silver coins your right the etrac is the machine for you,if im correct the friend your referring too traded his v3i for a minelab product 3030 if im not correct earl will be very happy with the minelab 3030.Great looking product...