Your tips & feedback re V3i in iron / nails & trash?

[Ytcoinshooter]

I'm interested in comments from experience using the V3i in high trash / iron sites. I know the basics regarding smaller coil, correlate setting, increase the speed of target response aka decrease delay between signals. I have kept an old two filter Classic ID for really trashy areas where I wasn't concerned about depth. I'm selling the classic for now. I may consider an IDX Pro in the future but am more interested in setting up the V and how effective it can be in high trash and iron. My other choice is putting the 6 eliminator coil on the XLT and modify the settings (easy enough). Just lately I go out with only the V. Before modifying the factory hi trash program I'm asking how did that work out for you?. Do you know if there is significant masking causing targets to be missed or is there no setting up the V to work anything like a 2 filter detector?
All comments are welcome!

[CyberSage]

Hello Ytcoinshooter,
I think your question concerning hunting trash/iron infested areas is right on the money so to speak. This is where you are going to find the good stuff, especially when it comes to heavily hunted parks and the like.
The coins are still there because they are being masked by adjacent trash and deep iron. The conventional wisdom of smaller coils, and quicker recovery times will get you some of those goodies, but much will still be missed due to the depth factor. As much as this approach helps you get inbetween the trash targets, it will rob you of that depth needed to get down to those coins in the process. So what to do?
I have spent much time with the V3 working the trash and deep iron areas. In the last year and a half I finally started pulling a substantial amount of finds from these areas. Here are the key methods and settings I use to get the job done with the V3. Much of the technique is modeled after Angel's methods used with his E-Trac.

1. Use the stock D2 Coil. It has great separation, and maintains the depth needed to get down to the coins. Using a Smaller DD coil like the 6X9 Eclipse will cost you more coins than it will help you find.

2. Stay with a Correlate based program. The Correlate Mode is key to quieting some of the iron and trash without the masking and nulling effect. Open up your Span Setting to 45 to allow for composite skewed hits. If your dealing with EMI in the Area adjust your wrap setting to -93 or -94. If you are in a non EMI affected area you can relax this setting a bit.

3. Don't use any discrimination in the non ferrous VDI area +1 to +95.

4. Recovery Delay must be slowed down dramatically. I use a setting of 100-108. This is important. We need to give the V3 the time it needs to determine signal response, and report it back accurately.

5. Use Tone ID. Keep each VDI number represented by an individual tone response. Discipline your self to a lot of noise. In the end we are not looking for an individual given tone, but rather a tone response from a certain range that is repeatable.

6. Irregardless of soil condition the Filter setting must be low. Use 5.0 Hz Band Pass, or 5.0 Hz High if there is no EMI to contend with. If your soil is bad you can adjust this to 7.5 Band Pass, but no higher. Why the low filter setting? This brings us to our next item...

7. Use a very slow swing speed. Keep the coil right down on the grass. If your on dirt then keep it as close to the ground as possible. Your swing speed must be rhythmic and slow. Use a 3 to 4 foot pass. When you catch the sound of a possible good target, work the target from all angles. Use a short 1 foot pass. Think of a Metronome when you swing. Slow, and rhythmic. Listen for a repeating consistent response from a possible good target. It may break up a little, and remember it could be skewed. I have dug Silver Dimes any where from +69 to +93, but the response will be somewhat consistent and repeatable. I can't stress enough the importance of a slow rhythmic swing. The Recovery delay setting needs this time, and the low filter setting will make this slow swing style possible.

8. Don't be in a hurry. Pick an area and grid it carefully with overlapping swings. When You find a Keeper stop griding, and hunt circling out from it about 10 feet before resuming your grid. This is the Grid and Circle technique I learned from Angel. IT WORKS WELL!


Hopefully this will give you some new perspective on hunting with the V3/V3i. Be patient, this will take a little time to adjust to if you are used to a faster paced hunt. Get used to hearing a lot of response in your headphones. A quiet detector is generally considered a bad thing in my book. It can mean one of several things... you have the detector cranked down to much with discrimination or sensitivity, your coil is to small, or there is nothing there. The ground is filled with things. If you want to root around in the trash, you have to be willing to hear it all to get to that one shiny Silver coin that is still hiding there.

Jack

EDIT: Just a Note. I have started exploring and experimenting with Mixed mode in hopes of overcoming some of the nulling effect. It will be interesting to see where this goes. Air testing with multiple targets show some good possibilities with this setting.

[Ytcoinshooter]

Jack, thank you for your detailed insight. That's just what I was looking for and I will store a program with the parameters you listed. Despite all the detecting I've done over 25 years this V has got me re-examining everything I knew. I'm looking to get the most out of my new Whites and stay competitive with those Aussie detectors that always impressed me with their results. Funny, the short time I owned a Sovereign it drove me bonkers and I am used to
hearing almost everything with tone ID and the disc
opened up.
Lately only having very limited time to use my V3i leaves me unsure of what this detector is capable of. The test plot has to get completed in order to shorten my learning curve. Reports from users in the field help me and Earthmansurfer's videos are very good.
Jack, thanks again.
HH-Bruce

[CyberSage]

Your welcome Bruce. :)

Here is a link to the current full program that I am using on the V3...

http://www.americandetectorist.com/forum/index.php?topic=1860.0

Yes, those Aussie detectors make some interesting noises, but they do make a great Silver sound, dont they? ;)

[earthmansurfer]

Great reply Jack and good post Coinshooter.

I have been reading up on the E-Trac and hoping to bring some of it's methods and such to the V3i. I mean, the E-Trac is essentially a VLF detector but with true multiple frequencies (combined). Generally multiple frequency machines (Minelabs and Fisher CZ's) don't do as well as single frequency machines in iron (The V3i is transmitting 3 separate frequencies, never combining them, so it qualifies). But, it seems the E-Trac does well on silver in iron (which maybe makes sense as it is a very high conductor). I wonder if there is a form of correlate on the E-Trac as well.

One thing that got me thinking was a post by BillS on Finds. He wrote an E-Trac program, pretty basic. He has a very small window for Nickels and the upper right quadrant for coins. I imagine to do this on the V3i, you would just need to 0 tone VDI's outside of typical coin VDI's AND leave room for lower/higher numbers due to nearby targets. For example, here in Germany I zero toned up to 27 or so as an experiment. Some coins hit around 30 but with iron nearby and the coins on angle, etc. I would get a cut out sound of the VDI's. I finally realized it was due to my cut off point and I dropped the zero tone to 24 to stop that.

The thing that got me, was that another knowledgable poster said the VDI's on the E-Trac are different with no discrim vs. Discrim. And Some of these guys went back through with more discrimination and pulled more coins and some at depth! More discrim really shouldn't do that the way we think (outside of audio fatique or audio masking us). I'm not sure if this is an E-Trac only thing or not.

Well, how about we set the V3i to iron tone 0 for those VDI's we don't want, then we can focus on the targets we are after? (At least in trashy ground). There is something to be said for a quieter hunt in this sense. Generally I run my machine hot and have zero problem differentiating iron falses from deeper targets. It is funny how I can hear iron every swing and then lower my sensitivity and it becomes a quiet hunt.

Lots of playing left to do with the V3i.

Regarding what Jack said, I actually have hunted the same area full of iron with the 6X10 stock coil after using the D2. I didn't pull but maybe one more coin. They weren't deep though, but the stock coil separate in fairly heavy iron well. You just need a better eye/ear hunting with it as you are hearing and seeing more. I'm slowly raising my recovery delay as well. Mixed mode has been in the back of mind mind as well. I learned on a Nautilus so really appreciate what it can do.

Albert

[Lowjiber]

Bruce,

I emailed you three files that may add some background to the helpful posts above.

John

[Ytcoinshooter]

Jack, Lowjiber THANK YOU! thumbsup01
Great reading and being unable to detect for over a week due to some bug that got me sick all I can do is read....

[Calibil]

Hi CyberSage;

Glad to find you here on American Detectorist
The link for iron ground was great, I had to tweak a few settings. The area I was recently at had so much bad dirt and iron my Garret pinpointer was almost useless. Setting a lot of iron to 0 tone, Lock track, and correlate with span limit helped lots.
I tried this set up with the prospecting program and found dimes had great audio.
Your right the V3i is a sleeper machine when it comes to iron discrimination-I only dug a few pieces of iron and that was next to targets'
I know the TID gets quite skewed with bad ground so I will dig targets that repeat good audio-lots of beaver pull tabs and their separated tails, but I also found some gold charms and lots of clad that others missed
Thanks for your diligent postings