Dried Up Lakes And Homesteads, Would you sneak in and ask for forgivness Later?

Touchy subject since the homes were moved by the Corps Of Engineers some 50 years back(detectors were lame back then, righ?), but the Corp still maintains the policing of the lake. Now,,,I know where many old glas bottles have been found by eyeballing, from home spots where the buildings were located way back when the dam was built for flooding. These goofy Corps metal detecting rules gives concerns for winding my way down through the woods to a secluded area where the anxient snuff bottles were picked up in the spots where the houses used to be. Would you just hunt it for buried treasure or what? Won't be long before rains hits in north Texas, and this may be the last time these areas are ever dry in my lifetime. You can be fairly sure that my asking for permission, OR A PERMIT would be touble if confronted. Would you sneak in and just ask for forgivness? I have a personal guide. martin

We need to follow whatever rules the landowner or manager has in place. Not only for the sake of that site, but it gives dectorists a bad name everywhere when we don't do the right thing, whatever that may be per site.

Would be a good way to get metal detectors banned in your area . That would be my concern along with the black eye that other might get from such a deed. IMO Yazoo

I really don't know what you are worrying about and I am pretty sure I know where you are talking about. I have been hunting the dry Corps lakes all summer in noth Texas and doing very well. Metal detecting is allowed and the rules are easy to follow. Go to their website and search metal detecting. Hand shovels under 12 are fine. I see other detectorists out there all the time. I see guys with long handle shovels in the park areas popping out cans and leaving holes with the trash next to them. We have been hunting the foundations and old roads for months with no problems. You are supposed to claim all finds over $25 in value and not pick up any artifacts (but OK for them to bulldoze over them and cover with a lake). I hit the Corps lakes 3-5 times a week with multiple detectors and people.

Here are rules for Benbrook:

Metal Detectors

The following guidance governs the use of metal detectors on Benbrook Lake, a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers water resource project:

The use of metal detectors will be allowed at Benbrook Lake in the developed park areas mowed and maintained by the Corps of Engineers.
Nonidentifiable items, such as coins of nominal value (defined in paragraph C) that are found do not need to be deposited with the natural resource manager or a ranger. Identifiable items (rings, watches, etc...) or items of greater than the nominal value will be deposited with the natural resource manager or a ranger for disposition according to the Title 36 CFR Part 327.15 (Abandonment and Impoundment of Personal Property) and Part 327.16 (Lost and Found) and subsequent revisions. These revisions will include all lost and found articles, not just those found with aid of metal detectors.
Nominal value is defined as less than $25.00.
All historical, archaeological, or paleontological items found will be deposited with the natural resource manager or a ranger.
Digging shall be limited to hand tools that can be used by one hand only, e.g. a hand trowel. Hand tools shall be limited to 4 inches wide and 12 inches long.
All trash, litter or other debris uncovered must be removed and placed in an approved trash receptacle. All soil disturbed or displaced shall be returned to its original state.

In all other areas, metal detectors will not be allowed without prior written permission from the District Engineer.




SO... Maybe technically the lake bed is not mowed or maintained.... but have talked to several park rangers and gate attendants while detecting and had no problems... Up to you... Good luck!

MartinL link=topic=7191.msg83280#msg83280 date=1317116102 said:

Touchy subject since the homes were moved by the Corps Of Engineers some 50 years back(detectors were lame back then, righ?), but the Corp still maintains the policing of the lake. Now,,,I know where many old glas bottles have been found by eyeballing, from home spots where the buildings were located way back when the dam was built for flooding. These goofy Corps metal detecting rules gives concerns for winding my way down through the woods to a secluded area where the anxient snuff bottles were picked up in the spots where the houses used to be. Would you just hunt it for buried treasure or what? Won't be long before rains hits in north Texas, and this may be the last time these areas are ever dry in my lifetime. You can be fairly sure that my asking for permission, OR A PERMIT would be touble if confronted. Would you sneak in and just ask for forgivness? I have a personal guide. martin

Click to expand...

Martin,

Diggler did the research for you.

You have asked on many different locations if detecting is allowed for different spots. Forum members have responded with answers, and have did the research and looked it up online for you numerous times.

I know you can use a computer--you use it to post on the forum.... As you seem to be very logical in your thinking and very detailed about things....you seem to be a smart enough guy............I just can't figure out why can't you look it up online for yourself:huh: :thinkingabout: :thinkingabout: You know the owners Corp of Eng. and the lake name and you are looking for rules on metal detecting.

To look for rules in county parks look in the county online website--under parks, then rules and regulations. The same for city park areas....it isn't hard to do.

If you can't find anything on it then you can ask any forum members if they know the laws on detecting the area. If you email or phone the officials at where you want to search...sure enough they will say NO--even if no laws are against detecting.

Just trying to help you............hope you don't take offense. :groovy:

Robbie

Dimeman link=topic=7191.msg83295#msg83295 date=1317134090 said:

Martin,

Diggler did the research for you.

You have asked on many different locations if detecting is allowed for different spots. Forum members have responded with answers, and have did the research and looked it up online for you numerous times.

I know you can use a computer--you use it to post on the forum.... As you seem to be very logical in your thinking and very detailed about things....you seem to be a smart enough guy............I just can't figure out why can't you look it up online for yourself:huh: :thinkingabout: :thinkingabout: You know the owners Corp of Eng. and the lake name and you are looking for rules on metal detecting.

To look for rules in county parks look in the county online website--under parks, then rules and regulations. The same for city park areas....it isn't hard to do.

If you can't find anything on it then you can ask any forum members if they know the laws on detecting the area. If you email or phone the officials at where you want to search...sure enough they will say NO--even if no laws are against detecting.

Just trying to help you............hope you don't take offense. :groovy:

Robbie

Click to expand...

This is not a park area, it is a seclusive area accessable by foot or 4-wheeler. Technically a legal case can be made that the entire shoreline is Govt controlled, but my question was simple about whether to hunt it and not stir the pot by confronting an actual official. That my Friend was a question of opinion. I know the rules for the local lake parks here, and if followed to the tee, you get an official permit, and you only search the shorelines, not the mowed areas. How the rules are applied when you trek through the woods to a place where home foundations are now dry since the drought, shade a lot of grey area on the topic.

I suppose I'm wasting bandwidth here with this question of opinion. This site is so busy ya know. Thanks all for those with amiable answers. martin

Guess you did take offense....oh well... I wasn't trying to ....honest..... :blush:

You are a smart guy :yes:------------ I had to look up amiable.............. :dontknow:

dry area above water and below the shoreline------technically that could be considered a beach area..................detecting is allowed on Corp lake beaches..........

Hi Martin,
asking this question here shows you knew the answer right before asking. Right?

Which lake is it? Lewisville? My cousin is on the city council of Highland Village and lives on Lake Lewisville there. Technically his waterfront property is owned by the Corps. They keep kayaks and hammocks on Corps land and have no problems. Also people sometimes walk across their beach, but no biggie. Reason I ask is because if it is Lake Lewisville (or Lake Dallas whatever they call ti these days) I might be able to ask my cousin for connections and special expedited consideration... If the area you are talking about is in Little Elm, I think I know the spot. Grew up on that lake back in the day... Then there is Lake Grapevine. Would be a trek from Knob Hill and any foundations on that end of the lake are mostly likely at least 2 feet deep in sediment. Hit a couple like that and found zilch. If by chance you want to hunt the foundations on Benbrook, I have hit five different ones and an old bridge. Have another one I am saving for winter or when the lake fills back up.

Would you sneak in and just ask for forgivness? Nope, I wouldn't.

charlives link=topic=7191.msg83329#msg83329 date=1317168695 said:

Would you sneak in and just ask for forgivness? Nope, I wouldn't.

Click to expand...

It IS hard to plea for forgiveness with your hands cuffed behind your back in the back of a cruiser......... :shocked03: :shocked03: :shocked03: :shocked03:

Just a humble opinion, but ask for permission and get the permit. It may be a pain in the backside, but not nearly as big a pain as paying the fines.

Mudder link=topic=7191.msg83845#msg83845 date=1317582727 said:

Just a humble opinion, but ask for permission and get the permit. It may be a pain in the backside, but not nearly as big a pain as paying the fines.

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That would indicate the same thing as asking for permission under any scrutinious question wouldn't it? Gettin' a permit wouldn't be difficult, but sliding to the new lake bed after that would be like an admission if confronted in the least, hence the purpose of the question of permission or forgiveness of not knowing. The political answer here is easy, yet how many people have just hunted and then crossed that bridge when confronted? The details about metel detecting is never clear cut, and the recent new dry lands in Texas lakes is a never to been seen event in most people's life times here. The law isn't clear, but a no answer if asked would be easiest on the officials, so the permit would be like an admission of guilt before you even found a single thing. It is like asking, then purposely breaking the laws of the permit, EVEN THOUGH the guidelines don't cover this new territory.

If,,,,before anyone put a coil to the ground, in any public place, or unkown private spot or any park, even when it is unmarked by any literal signs saying detecting is forbidden, and, they never look for an official to ask if it is OK...isn't that a reasonable comparison? No matter if it is an intersection on a street, or a spot of woodlands you assume is open, etc. then in theory nobody should ever detect when not verbally authorized by direct a conversation, or by any permit. Am I wrong? martin

public dry land unless it is officially designated ought not have any resrictions except in the case of the sign that says NO SWIMMING

Use of Metal Detector’s are allowed ONLY
at Designated Swim Beaches on Lavon Lake.

This highlighted verbage on the permit seems to nullify the open rights on the dry lake bed...if you agree to the terms and buy the permit. A novice buying a metal detector or uninformed hunter playing dumb;-) and hitting the lake bed might very easily just get shoo-d away, whereas a permit holder could get dinged.

By the reading of this notice below, everyone who hunts these dry lake beds on this lake, are breaking the law. There is also a recent news story about looters, not specifically metal dectorists, taking indian artifacts on Lake Whitney, so I kinda figure there are more chances of getting Joe-Public watching for hunters even more now and calling the cops. I hope this explains the question I asked originally a little better about acting dumb and skipping the permit for the secluded hunt of the old homestead foundations. It's either that, or sheepsihly missing out and not trying, while there are obviously people hunting these lake beds right now. I'm just trying to keep people informed, and if there's a way around the issue, be able to hunt myself. Yea, asking permission ALWAYS sounds the best policy, yet that act in itself will many times just get a no because that is the easiest answer from an official. It is still tempting to just hunt and plead ignorance since logic to the non-researching, casual detectorist is...there's no signs posted to not detect. The casual, occasional hunter would likely be hunting without a second thought. The acquisition of the permit would admit guilt though if confronted, whereas the so-called novice would maybe just get run off after a lecture.

It's not that tempting today though, so I am leaving it alone. martin

Went to Lake Lavon website. Their conditions sound the most strict out of all the lakes in the region. Must be a well documented native American area, or they had trouble before... Yah those doofuses at Whitney actually broke through concrete that was put in for the purpose of entombing artifacts. Definitely brought attention to MD'ing at the local lakes. 2 people I work with approached me about the subject because they know I hit the lakes all the time. Ground is too hard to dig anywhere else at the moment, so will be lake hunting until things soften up a little. I was driven off from the lake last Sunday not by the authorities, but by some idiots shooting a gun into the beach from some trees close by. :thumbsdown: I do have to say that even though the foundations, and further out in the lake bed have produced some neat finds, the beach areas have definitely been the most lucrative.

Went to Lake Lavon website. Their conditions sound the most strict out of all the lakes in the region.

If it in any part of Collin County, and it's fun,,,the county or somebody will screw you out of most of it by being over bearing on laws. That's probably what's going on here too, cuz I have never heard about any indian history here. Never mind the new situation with the dry lake bed though, the general restrictions basically makes it not a worthwhile adventure, plus it is a mud bowl to begin with. Collin County, I'm tellin ya, they are fun killers if they ain't raking in cash over it in some way. I actually have a full set of keys I lost in that lake in about 8 feet of water, and I know the spot very well. I'd enjoy going and finding it after all of these 20+ years now that the grouns is dry there. Curse them all! martin

Always get permission to hunt wherever you are going to! And sell the V3i and get yourself an E-Trac!!!!
Your life will be all rainbows and fuzzy bunnies just by doing these two things.
Oh also brush regulary and don't forget to floss! |:cheering: