White's Spectra Vision (V3) [Archive] - American Detectorist Metal Detecting Forums

Lowjiber

10-25-2009, 08:04 PM

I thought I'd get a Vision thread started here. I'm not an expert, but know a few who are.

Hopefully, folks can use this place to share information and questions about the machine. Even in it's early stages, this forum appears to have a lot of talented folks who can help with questions.

I'll start it off...I'm an old MXT user hunting very mineralized soil conditions in the S.F. Bay area of California. I bought my Vision very early in production (Serial Number: 016) and immediately had a defective 10D2 coil. White's replaced the coil within 3 working days.

I've used the V mostly to find deep silver...Mercs are hard to come by around here. I found more Mercs in the first six months with the Vision than I had in the previous eighteen months with the MXT (and I think I'm pretty good with a MXT ;) ).

For the past two months, I've been experimenting with a three freq correlate program designed by Cybersage. I'm currently experimenting with a 12x15 SEF Excel coil.

Enought about me. Let's hear from others...please.

CyberSage

10-26-2009, 09:54 PM

Well amigo, what say we crank this thread up to a nice respectable level. I happen to think the V3 is the leading detector on the market today and deserves a thread like no other found on the Internet. ;)

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Lowjiber

10-27-2009, 11:07 AM

Well amigo, what say we crank this thread up to a nice respectable level.
JackI'll get us started. Here are some notes from The Book of Jack that are some of Jimmy Sierra's thoughts on ground probes, etc. I compiled this stuff from several posts that Jimmy made...mostly on dfxonly.com.

First off, there are 2 ground probes. The one that you enter by pressing ZOOM in Sensitivity on the live control dash board is usually used to give you an idea what the best setting to use on the RX Gain (preamp gain).
Press Menu/TAb to highlight Rx Gain and then hold the coil steady over the ground. You will see the Probe Reading of the Signal to Noise Ratio.

The Signal reading is the % of the signal that is destroyed by the ground minerals or sometimes by electrical interference. The lower this % number the stronger the signal will come through or be received. If this number is 50% or more, you will probably have to reduce the Gain and Sensitivity to operate as this would indicate high mineralization .

The Noise reading measures the External Interference. 0% or a low number indicates very little external noise and low ground interference, thus allowing for using a higher preamp RX Gain. Conversely, a high % reading of Noise of 50% or more would require you to reduce the RX Gain or possibly try to use a different frequency setup on your program or maybe use a smaller search coil.

The bottom line with detecting is always to try to achieve a ratio of High Signal to Low Noise. This is usually done by not cranking up the Gain or Sensitivity so high that you obliterate a good signal with the increase in noise. Too much gain might make the target signal louder, but it cant be heard through the ground Noise. Particularly small and deep targets get the worse treatment. The suggested RX Gain setting is only a suggestion. You may still be able to raise or lower it based on your own observation of whether the detector is operating quietly. It just gives you an idea where to start.

Highlight â€œGround Trackingâ€ and pressing Zoom access THE SECOND GROUND PROBE. The probe is on the right. Press Menu/Tab to highlight ZERO and then hold the coil in the air and press Enter. This sets the probe at zero. Now, lower the coil to the ground. This measures the VDI number of the ground, or if you do it over a target, the VDI number of the ground plus the target.

The phase # is just another way of indicating the VDI number. Another way to indicate the mineralization of the ground is the strength of the ground is measured in %....0 to 5% represents weak ground, 5 to 10% could be referred to as moderate ground and anything over 10% I would call bad or heavy ground minerals. If you get a piece of ferrite or some black sand you can test this for yourself. the phase angle in degrees. 0-5 would indicate low or weak ground minerals, 5-10 moderate ground and 10 or more heavy ground mineralization.

By the way, I think I mentioned that in bad ground the 10 High pass filter is probably the best.

Bottom line is that we always end up with the same advice. Whether you have to know all of this is problematic. If you love tweaking it gives you lots to think about. For me. I just run the RX up till I get interference then I back off a bit. Then I try to adjust my AC or Disc Sens up till I get interference and back off. The Disc Sens is where you get the depth. Remember, the RX Gain is really how loud the signal gets, not the sensitivity to the target. You need it high enough to hear a good signal, but not so high as to hear ground interference or outside electrical interference. Then I re-ground balance as often as I need to. Squeezing trigger to enter pinpoint (all metal) and lowering the coil to the ground will allow you to check the ground balance. If you hear no change or preferably a slight increase in threshold, you are OK. If not. Squeeze trigger and press enter and pump a few times and go on with detecting.

Preamp Gain, is actually an audio amplification of the Receive Signal. Yes, you could hear deeper with a higher preamp gain, if the signal was too faint to hear and of course if you have hearing loss, this can help. However, the main function of the Pre amp is to control environmental interference. It is the first line of defense to remove radio, 60 cycle, microwave, power lines etc. from interfering with detection. You see, a higher preamp not only magnifies the loudness of a target but also of noise from environment and from the ground itself.

Another thing, when you pinpoint and you hear a noise when you lift the coil off of the ground it is a sure sign that the detector is not properly ground balanced. This is referred to as lift off and is not good. When this is the case, the coil will go blank as it approaches the ground and in essence is NOT rejecting the ground and will reduce depth and performance.

Lowjiber

10-29-2009, 06:32 AM

Yesterday, I decided to experiment with single frequency combinations in the highly mineralized California soils. While Iâ€™ve â€œread the bookâ€, itâ€™s always fun to learn the hard way.

I set up two programs based on the library Coin & Jewelry programâ€¦one using 2.5kHz and the other 22.5kHz. I wanted to be able to switch between them quickly without readjusting gain/disc sens/etc.

Filters: I started out using 10Hz Band on both programs. This quickly proved to be annoying and a switch to 10Hz High seemed to work better. One of my hopes was to get a filter that would handle the minerals and allow a bit faster swing speed than the 5Hz filter. I ended up using 7.5Hz with a â€œmoderateâ€ swing speed.

Filter Recovery Delay: I dropped this to 15 (drastic move) to see how target separation was affected in high trash areas. It didnâ€™t seem to affect depth, but Iâ€™ll likely raise it to about 30 on the next trip out to give me a â€œwiderâ€ window for really deep stuffâ€¦the juryâ€™s still out on this one.

Because the 10D2 loves bottle caps, I decided to slightly empower the Bottle Cap Reject (and Hot Rock Reject) with a very modest setting of 2. I had read this tip somewhere else and had to try it. Seemed to work wellâ€¦so far anyway.

I left the Disc Sens set at 88 all day long.

Here are some observations: With the 2.5 program, the ground probe recommended a Rx Gain of 15 which worked great all day. Using Rx = 15, combined with a high Disc Sens, I expected occasional falsing, but didnâ€™t really get much if I didnâ€™t â€œbumpâ€ the coil.

The surprising thing was the probe recommendation for the 22.5 programâ€¦2!!! I tweaked it to 5, but the result was somewhat painful. I thought the higher freq would handle the minerals betterâ€¦I was wrong. Lesson learned: If trying to run high gain in a bad area with three freqs, drop to one (2.5kHz) if you want more Rx Gain.

So (you ask), what kind of depth were you getting? I identified and dug two targets at 9â€â€¦both Wheaties. I had no problems identifying targets in the 7â€ rangeâ€¦not uncommon with even the library C/J program though. No silver today.

Iâ€™m going to continue to experiment and learn. I hope you will too.

Eagle 1

11-06-2009, 09:02 PM

HI: Lowjiber & CyberSage

Great start to a great MD the V3. I have a Vision/V3 also # 43. My coil was also bad and now my screws are coming out at the head assm. So I just sent it in to White's to have it fixed. I am haveing them check it out 100 %. Check my coil, Check pinpoint, Check the depth, up Grade to 1.3 and fix 1 one of the locking tab on the battery door. I can't weight to get it back. I have not got muck time on it about 25 hr. Between all the rain we have had up here in Maine and fixing my house. I will put in more time when I get it back before it snows here. I will put in what I can to help. I started out with 6000DI in the 1970's for two years then I stopped for a bit. Then I got a DFX for three years and jump on the Vision about April of 2009. So far I love my V3 and at 52 I think it will be my last MD. It has everything I wan't. And now I just wan't too know the V like the back of my hand.

Eagle 1

Neil in West Jersey

11-23-2009, 12:35 PM

Great post!

I recently got a V3. It is truely a learning experience, even compared to the DFX, which I love. I have not had a tremendous amount of time to detect lately due to many life events going on lately. I have yet to find any deep coins like I have with my DFX (see my site).

I have, however done extensive bench testing using different settings and configurations. I am in the process of putting together a technical report on VDI the effects on target ID in 8 (out of 12) different frequency configurations. I have completed the desirable target portion, and I am now in the process of bench testing junk targets. I hope to have the report completed within the next week. I will post it to the V3 & DFX Tips and tricks section of my site.

Take care!
Neil

coinnut

11-23-2009, 05:30 PM

rcasio44

11-24-2009, 12:53 AM

Glad to be here to talk and learn. I recognize a lot of the people here. I can't wait to get started on the good stuff. I used an MXT for 4 years and think I got pretty good. All my coils are good now as she's running smooth. Rob

Eagle 1

11-24-2009, 06:20 AM

Welcome to the forum Neil & Rob great to have you here.

Eagle 1
Jim

Epi-hunter

11-24-2009, 06:27 AM

SeabeeRon

11-24-2009, 12:21 PM

From a MXT user, glad to see teh V3 thread here!! :grin:

Sandman

11-25-2009, 10:22 PM

Had to send the Vision in to Whites today crying01. Hopefully they will line it out so I can get back to schooling myself on the ways of the Spectra. Luckily Im able to apply some tricks from the 705 to the Vision. But there is still a lot of things to learn. Im happy I got it and looking forward to learning the machine thumbsup01. Anyway, glad to be part of this thread!!!

SkateCreek

11-26-2009, 07:08 PM

We are all in this together......
Hope to learn and share about the V3, but first I need to eat some Turkey! :twirlingeyes:

RickO

11-27-2009, 10:59 AM

Wow... I knew I was just a beginner with the V3, but after reading this thread, not only have I learned a few things, but I realize how much more I have to learn. This is one awesome machine. Thanks Jack, Lowjiber et al.... RickO

Lowjiber

11-28-2009, 09:43 AM

FYI for everyone...

I've had a Vision since they first became available and have learned much from many people. I've collected several pages of tips and tidbits from various forums and keep them in a file entitled The Book of Jack (Jack, being Cybersage who is a major contributor.)

If anyone would like a copy (Microsoft Word format), drop me a PM with your email address, and I'll forward it to you.

Later Note: For those who don't have Microsoft's Word program on their computer, let me know and I'll send you one in PDF format that can be read by Adobe readers.

CyberSage

11-29-2009, 09:36 PM

Hey gang!

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I actually got in some serious hunt time this weekend. Had some great results and will try to get a post up on the finds. I have refined the Correlate based program and am very happy with the current revision. I will get this posted as well. Talk to you soon.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

12-02-2009, 10:44 PM

Just orderd a V3 for myself. I'll be patrolling this thread for info on a regular basis. I really appreciate the time you guys put into writing up your experiences and successes. I'll try to reciprocate and post my experiences learning this new machine. I'll definately be reporting on my finds as I have numerous old houses I have permission to hunt, and have already hit them hard with my DFX and MXT, it will be interesting to see if there are any significant finds left. I have pulled 39 Silver coins this year and hope to up that number with the V3, the DFX hit IH's (22 this year) and wheats (219) real nice at these homes. There have been numerous times I have found silver with the DFX and wasn't confident on what it was before digging (broken or varying signal, sometimes just a chirp that I had to rescan to lock in on ( ie. SLQ @ 5 that I thought should have hit me like a sledge hammer thru the head phones). Anyway, I cannot wait to try it out. Dyed in the wool Whites guy I guess, + I have a DX-1 I can throw on it.

CyberSage

12-03-2009, 07:24 PM

Here are a few handy links to V3 information on the Web...

Current Software Revisions

1.0 = original Version
1.1 = Volume control fix
1.2 = In house fix to use more than one brand of a IC
1.3 = Fixed a audio phase rotation creating a stereo to mono on some units

Owners Guide
http://media.whiteselectronics.com/manuals/V3%20Manuals/v3-owners-guide.pdf

Field Guide
http://media.whiteselectronics.com/manuals/V3%20Manuals/v3-field-guide.pdf

V3 Assembly Guide
http://media.whiteselectronics.com/manuals/V3%20Manuals/v3-assembly-guide.pdf

V3 Spectrasound Instruction
http://media.whiteselectronics.com/manuals/V3%20Manuals/v3-spectrasound-instruction.pdf

V3 Complete Video Library (Click on forward and back arrows to navigate through videos)

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=63080C4EA9B1D933

yazoo

12-03-2009, 08:29 PM

Got a bit of a question for my weather has gone cold and it might be awhile b4 I get to play outside.I had started playing with a program excepting everything but about 3-4 numbers around my ground phase.Of all those excepted #'s I assigned the same very low tone Except for a few in the upper ranges know for coins and the were of a high pitch. Was figuring that nothing would be nulled and all the goodies might come though better.Started with a 2.5 non normalized deep silver program am thinking maybe best data though. Does anybody have any input good or bad?It appeared to have a good feel out detecting but time was short. H.H. Yazoo

xzlr8n

12-03-2009, 08:49 PM

Yazoo,

Sounds like the MXT in Relic mode, which I like alot. In relic mode whenever I hear that higher pitch sound its all engines stop and re-scan the area and try and lock on to the beeper. I don't have my V3 yet, but I look forward to testing some of the options offered up here and I think the V3 feature of assigning tones to different signals might be very useful.

teckpro

12-04-2009, 07:22 PM

I hunt in parks .
I find it takes alot more concentration and effort to use the 10DD coil.
I look foward to using the other coils, However, I find the most desireable items with the 10DD.

I am still having trouble finding coins over 5 deep, I know they are there.
My settings

Coins
Rx 10 -14
Disc. 92
filter 5 band or 7.5 band.
Recovery 85 or 120

today
rosie 1951 5
wheaty 1941 9
wheaty 1954 5 ..
3 coins in 2 hours
Ignoring shallow targets, all digging broken quick chirps NOT solid hits.
I am still getting used to this style of hunting , and Jacks COORSelate program.

What do you guys think?

yazoo

12-04-2009, 09:32 PM

Sounds a lil to hot to me depending on the frequency and ground .Some times its better to run though the fog with yr dims on, for the brights dont shine as far.Same thing with the power of the V3. Just a thought there. H.H. Yazoo

teckpro

12-04-2009, 10:33 PM

I did not Buy this $$$$ top Line MD to dig 0-4 surface coins, I want Old and deep.

I ran this Ground many times with rx 3 , 7 , 10 , now 12.
Recomend rx is 10 -15.

I have not found a deep , Silver quarter Yet . while watching another Brand machine ,hiting the deep ones, over 6 inches.

Settings and swinging slow ,worked for my first Rosie, at this location.

I still need to learn a different style/ TECKnique of detecting and hotter/ beter settings.

Any advanced user suggestions ?

yazoo

12-05-2009, 10:56 AM

Try Deep Silver, I have pulled silver at 11-14 inches,and I used a non V nulled 10x14 excellerator.As for your program it looks to me that the all metal is set way to high. I know earlier when I had got my Vision back last spring I was setting things hotter and was going shallower,I cut back on some of the power and started going deeper .Some grounds need less to go deeper.My ground phase shows a -93 with the V3, about the same as my DFX used to DC phase it at. H.H. Yazoo

CyberSage

12-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Hey teckpro!

If you popped a wheat at 9 inches with the D2 coil your doing just fine. My concern is you RX setting being a little high. If your getting a ground probe recommend in that range you must have relatively low mineralization. Thats good news! In low mineralization using the Super12 coil or larger 12x15 SEF coil will maximize your depth. The 12x15 SEF will do much better in trashy areas than the S12 coil. My favorite coil right now is the 10x12 SEF. I feel it easily out performs the D2 coil for depth and at the same time retains the excellent separation of the D2. I am not a fan of the D2 coil at all. I feel it is a bad choice of coil for the V3. Here is the latest revision of the Correlate program.

Here is the update on the Correlate based program for the V3

Choose the Coin & Jewelry from the presets and make the following changes...

Discrimination
Accept (-95,-94,+40 to +95)
Reject (-93 to +39)

Notes: Set your accept range to include all + numbers (+1 to +95) if you want to include the gold range. Deep Nickels and larger gold items will still sound off with the default settings above. Accepting all + range targets will make things much noisier as well. Remember this program is primarily for hunting old deep coins.

Sensitivity
Rx Gain (9-10)
Discrimination (92-93)
All Metal (78)

Notes: Set your sensitivity to where your detector is stable. Do not sacrifice Discrimination sensitivity for Rx Gain. Keep the Discrimination sensitivity as high as possible. To much RX Gain will cause more problems with deep iron sounding like good targets.

Ground Tracking
Speed (15)

Frequency
Correlate (ON)
Span (43)
Wrap (-94)

Notes: I have now included -94 on the wrap and opened up the span setting to smooth out deep target responses.

Filter & Speed
Ground Filter (5Hz Band Pass)
Recovery Delay (115)

Audio
Tone ID (ON)
Modulation (OFF)

Set your Tone ID Mode to Custom and make the following changes...

-95 = 254
-94 = 253

Notes: This last adjustment on the audio will let a deep coin produce a nice rolling response as opposed to being sharp and cut off. Hot rocks and rusty nail tips remain sharp and cut off while coins sound smooth and roll in the decay of the generated tone. This really works well. Don't skip this last setting especially with concentric coils like the 950 and Super12. The 22.5kHz frequency is the reason for this last setting. It will tend to wrap on a good deep target. Something in the logic of the V3 will choose this frequency over the 7.5kHz. If your not accepting these values in the negative range your target will respond short and sharp sounding, or not elicit a response at all.

Swing that coil slow and in about 4 foot passes. Make a pass in both directions over the same ground before overlapping for your next swing. Keep that coil on or slightly off the surface. I am a scrubber and keep my coil right on the ground when hunting. This works well on grass and dirt. If there is small rocks then I lift the coil enough for clearance.

Hope this helps you out.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

RickO

12-05-2009, 11:06 AM

Great information Jack, I know many of us appreciate the data and the efforts you put in to get this. Thanks, RickO

teckpro

12-05-2009, 01:13 PM

Ok

I will reduce settings and use the sup12.

In all my hunting ,I keep the signal below 10% and noise is low to 0 and I no instability or falseing. Can I still be hurting/ reducing/ interfering with my depth??

xzlr8n

12-05-2009, 09:12 PM

Jack,

I'm getting a new V soon. Since the 10 D2 comes with the machine, which coil do you like best made by Whites. I have a DFX which I have the Super 12, 9 Reg conc, and 9 x 10 D for - none are V Rated (does it matter if you don't use the TX boost)?? I'm getting the X-mas coupon from Whites where I can spend another $100 and get something possibly V rated.

Also, wondering what kind of ground you have in Colorado as I am in NY with pretty low mineralization. Would you reccomend anything different in your correlate program for us Easterners. I'm sure you have written about this on another forum but there is so many pages to read thru.

Greatly appreciated,
Scott

CyberSage

12-05-2009, 09:48 PM

Hello Scott!

Congratulations on the pending acquisition of a fine instrument. If your mineralization is low, that Super12 coil you have will serve you well. A properly nulled coil in your case may be worth the investment however. In low mineral content ground you can push the V3 a little harder. You might consider a v rated Eclipse 6x9, or a V rated Super12. This of coarse depends on what your hunting for and where you plan to hunt. I hope you will share your results with us here on the forum. I think we have what will prove to be one of the leading resources for the Spectra V3 detector on the Internet.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

EDIT: Sorry, I overlooked your question. I have a moderate mineral content in most areas that I hunt. I have had good luck with the Super12 coil and currently using the 10x12 SEF coil. I think it is the best so far for me. I really like the extra logic that goes into the Correlate mode. It can quiet even the noisiest ground. If you can adjust it properly the coins just scream at you.

xzlr8n

12-09-2009, 12:01 AM

Does anyone know of any issues using a Sunray DX-1 on the V3?? I'm going to rob the one on my DFX.

coinnut

12-09-2009, 11:46 AM

I believe I read that there are some issues with it, but minor ones. I think it most likely will not work when the boost is engaged. It may also overload when you have the sensitivity cranked. I'm not sure what they call the sensivity setting these days... TX boost:huh: :confused:

CyberSage

12-09-2009, 06:13 PM

Does anyone know of any issues using a Sunray DX-1 on the V3?? I'm going to rob the one on my DFX.

It works relatively well. It does have a tendency to detune the target in single frequency modes. IT has about a 2 inch range most of the time, so it is not as quite as powerful on the V3 as it is on the DFX. I have taken to using a Garret Pin Pointer Pro that I bought for my Wife when she swings the DFX. I really like it and has about the same range. It has proximity feedback just like the DX-1. It's a toss up.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

randy

12-09-2009, 10:14 PM

I had an iron masking problem today I really didn't understand with the V3. Usually when hunting old large copper sites they are also infested with iron. If I get a good signal one way, I swing the other way, and if it just respond as iron, I ignore it. This is usually a nail, right? (well, it has been when I've dug them anyway).

Anyway, I got a target today that I was certain was an LC. Swung the other way, and it rang only as iron. Swung back tho and it showed as a LC. So, three of the 4 directions it rang high, and the fourth was iron only, with no hint of a high target. These are usually iron but I was pretty confident in this one, so I kept playing with it before digging, trying different program, etc.

Turns out the iron pinpointed a good foot away from the good target. But, when swinging from that direction, the V didn't see the good target at all. Tried it several times. Saw it consistently when swinging the other 3 directions, including the direction of target then iron.

I dug the good target and it turned out it was a farthing (nickel) - sized LC at 7 inches on its side. Marked the exact spot and again verified the iron target pinpointed a foot away from the copper target.

So, why would the iron mask that target when swinging from that direction a good foot away? I'm worried that good targets that are closer to iron are being totally masked. I was using the CJ program, but also tested Deep Silver and Jack's correlate program. Using the stock D2 coil (which is intermittently bad but was fine today).

Anyway, scan from all 4 directions, and if 3 are fine, dig. But I wouldn't expect what I saw today. Hope the question makes sense. Any help appreciated, TIA.

coinnut

12-10-2009, 01:05 PM

Iron masking is a much bigger problem than most people think. A large piece of iron can mask a target a good distance away. If your recovery speed is not set to the fast side, then your machine is still recovering from a large iron target and depending on how fast you sweep, you will lose the good target. All those adjustments are crucial, as well as a small coil for those situations. I don't know what those functions are on the V3, as some controls have been renamed, but they are crutial to reducing the masking found at cellar and house sites. Now, with the DFX, I have found that iron reacts a certain way from site to site, depending on the composition, I have found many good targets that did not repeat in many directions. I usually follow this rule. If I have to think about this particular target for more than 5 seconds, then I'm going to dig it. Some targets that are masked just give you a little bit more of a ratty signal than iron. Try it and see if you get any good targets.

del

12-10-2009, 01:55 PM

i'm not familiar with the v3 Randy but i've heard some of its settings are somewhat similar to the dfx , if i get what you described or just an iron null with a high chirp mixed in there somewhere . i will pinpoint the target and then pinpoint again ( which will shrink or seem to make the target even smaller) and hold it and while in this all metal mode check to see if there are any other targets close by . if there is one or more other targets about a coil width away or less i'll dig the target and re-sweep , did this at one site and i had to dig 2 pieces of iron first then got the large copper coin ( it was surrounded by 3 pieces of iron in total)

Dan

CyberSage

12-10-2009, 06:59 PM

Nice find there Randy! If I could ask few question regarding the scenario you just described in your post? What frequency configuration were you using? What was your filter and recovery time set to? Lastly how fast do you generally swing? This is a really good observation on your part. Thanks for sharing it here on the forum.

Jack

randy

12-11-2009, 09:04 AM

I tried three programs. I swing at the recommended 2 sec per pass. I did try slower swings.

Stock CJ: 3 freq; 10hz high; recovery 80
Deep silver: green freq; 5hz band; recovery 100
Jack's original correlate: 3 freq; 5hz band; recovery 115

It is interesting, because I have found good targets in junk before, but my memory is a response in different frequencies -- like a sine wave on the Analyze screen or a switching of dominant frequency in pinpoint -- this has always been a good target near junk or a canslaw in my experience (can't tell the difference yet).

In the case above, is it possible the iron junk was green dominant? (I didn't check, and should have). This is where I don't understand the physics or electronics well enough, but is it possible that if the iron were responding green dominant, that the green freq hadn't recovered? Were the junk to be red or blue dominant, and the frequencies truly independent, it would perhaps have allowed green to respond. This is at least consistent with my other observations, but I am really totally clueless about what is going on under the hood.

CyberSage

12-11-2009, 02:15 PM

...I dug the good target and it turned out it was a farthing (nickel) - sized LC at 7 inches on its side. Marked the exact spot and again verified the iron target pinpointed a foot away from the copper target.

So, why would the iron mask that target when swinging from that direction a good foot away?

I think I know what was going on here. I re-read your post and saw that the coin was on it's edge. How many times have you carefully pinpointed your target only to find out the coin is still in the sidewall of the hole? This is because a coin on edge will often throw a false pinpoint and motion mode centering. I believe thats exactly what happened here. Iron also can throw a false center. If these 2 targets did this in each others direction it could really confuse the filters of the detector and make them appear as if they were right on top of each other. Did you dig the iron target? If not you should go back and dig it. An elongated piece of iron would add more effect as well. (nail, wire, screw). Just a thought.

Jack

randy

12-12-2009, 06:45 AM

I think I know what was going on here. I re-read your post and saw that the coin was on it's edge. How many times have you carefully pinpointed your target only to find out the coin is still in the sidewall of the hole? This is because a coin on edge will often throw a false pinpoint and motion mode centering. I believe thats exactly what happened here.

Thanks Jack, that makes perfect sense. Not only that, I noted the coin was facing the iron . I did not dig the iron, tho I thought about it in the interest of curiosity.

xzlr8n

12-13-2009, 05:03 PM

Does anyone have an idea on how aluminum shows up on the analyze screen. Which frequency peaks best and also how the other frequencies respond. Does one dip??

Also, I was reading in the manual (page 33) you can go into the Ground Probe readings from the Live Controls with Ground Tracking highlighted. Analysis of ground and target for phase/VDI differences is possible. Is there a way to keep this an active screen or have this window open all the time?? Is this a practicle option like DC Phase readings is on the DFX.

I hope these questions are practicle, I haven't even turned on my new machine with the snow and frozen ground. I have been reading the manual and visting forums though. I cannot wait for Spring.....

CyberSage

12-15-2009, 10:19 PM

Aluminum is a crazy thing. Run over an aluminum can with a lawnmower and you have just created a full spectrum of target responses. Throw in 4 decades of pulltabs and you got yourself a challenge. Depth of target is the best indication for me. I never find to much aluminum past 4 inches. When you go to pinpoint larger pieces of aluminum will show a larger contour. Most aluminum responds stronger for me in the 7.5 kHz frequency, but there is always exceptions. This is really a tough one to pin down. If your looking for gold you just have to dig it all for awhile and try to profile your location. Oh, and by the way. If you find the secret to differentiating aluminum please send me a PM. We would not want to let everyone know about this ... :grin:

Keep Swing'in
Jack

BHNugget

12-16-2009, 08:49 AM

Oh, and by the way. If you find the secret to differentiating aluminum please send me a PM. We would not want to let everyone know about this

lol lol lol lol

xzlr8n

12-16-2009, 08:54 PM

I guess I was hoping for too much on the aluminium wave pattern. Just as I suspected, dig it all for gold just like every other machine on the market!!

Anyone used the ground probe analysis window?? No responses to that question yet.

CyberSage

12-19-2009, 06:58 PM

Anyone used the ground probe analysis window?? No responses to that question yet.

Not other than to get a recommended RX Gain setting and to get an idea of what kind of penetration I am getting into the ground...

While on the subject, doing single frequency probes will reveal the handicap the 22.5 kHz frequency actually puts on the V3. Now it's well known that lower frequencies penetrate mineralization much better, but having such a high frequency try to correlated with the lower two frequencies in a multi mode program is just not going to give you good results. I believe this higher frequency skews the results of a multi frequency ground probe as well. I kind of wish Whites would not of went so high with this frequency. Putting one at 15.5 kHz would have not only enhanced the multi frequency modes, but there would have been no need for V-rated Coils. The only benefit I see to the 22.5 is nugget shooting in single frequency mode, which most of us will never do. If I did make the effort to nugget shoot I would certainly go much higher in frequency with a specialty machine. This being said, I still think you can still get great depth and sensitivity with the V3, but wouldn't it be fun to go coin shooting with a 2.5/7.5/15.5 configuration. :yes:

Keep Swing'in
Jack

hang7575

12-21-2009, 06:06 AM

Jack I read your above post about the 22.5 and v rated coils. I have been running relic mode in single freq 22.5 with the 10dd coil Tried it with my 10x12 sef coil and had to reduce the gain, probe recommended 2 I switched to 7.5 single and the probe recommended 15 for the SEF. So I guess if you run single freq with non V coil stay away from the 22.5 Also been using your correlate program for relic hunting and am amazed how stable and deep it is with the 10x12 sef. Going to try it at the next DIV in the hot dirt of North Virginia

CyberSage

12-21-2009, 09:43 PM

Even on V rated coils the 22.5 kHz response patterns are to far from the 2.5 kHz and the 7.5 kHz. You are correct in that this is even more obvious with a non V rated coils. The 22.5 kHz by itself is not the issue, it's when you try to use it in conjunction with the other 2 frequencies that causes the problems. The higher frequency will wrap on you time and time again. Custom Tone settings and the wrap function of the correlate mode is the only way I have found to deal with this. At shallower depths it is not an issue, but when you get into the 8 to 10 inch range it becomes obvious.

CyberSage

12-26-2009, 11:37 AM

Over the Christmas holiday I managed to get out for a short hunt one afternoon. Using the above program and SEF coil I ran into noise problems with the -95, -94 range for the first time. Lowjiber had described this issue to me in detail, so I recognized it immediately. It would appear that the Mineralization is higher in western Colorado than on the Front Range, or at least in this area I hunted. The area had about 8 to 12 inches of topsoil mixed with small gravel the deeper you dug. Just under this layer was some pretty large donies (river stones). This played tricks with the filters and tracking, kind of like hunting the edge of a sidewalk and extending your swing over the sidewalk. I adjusted up the ground tracking speed and did away with the accepting of -95 and -94. I adjusted the wrap to -95 and things quieted down. I actually had to dig a large donie out of the way to get at 1 of the Wheats I found. Average depth on the keepers were 7 to 8 inches. I have hunted this area with the Super12 in the past and did not experience the noise problems. Then again I did not find any coins with it in this same area. So I guess this is a good example of DD style coils doing better in higher mineralization.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

ArmyVetPaul

12-28-2009, 04:03 PM

Hello everyone, my name is Paul and I live in Maryland. I am brand new to MD and have bought a Spectra V3 and have the 10 DD, Super 12, 5.3 and the 6x10 DD coils. If I were to buy one more coil what would you guys recommend, maybe the SEF 10x12? Any suggestion on getting started and getting the hang of the V3 would be great.

CyberSage

12-28-2009, 08:25 PM

Hey Paul!

I have been on the road traveling back home to the front range of Colorado. Sorry I did not reply to your PM in a timely fashion. It looks like you have assembled a nice collection of coils. You will have your hands full initially learning all those coils. If your coin shooting I wouldn't hesitate to pick up an SEF coil. The 10x12 is my coil of choice for the V3 at the moment. What type of hunting will you be doing? Do you have areas already picked out to hunt? This information will help with advice on what direction to go. Congratulations on your new purchase and welcome to the addiction. ;)

Keep Swing'in
Jack

ArmyVetPaul

12-28-2009, 09:54 PM

Jack, thanks for getting back to me. I am excited to start MD with the V3, I am doing as much reading as I can before getting my hands dirty. I think I am going to add the SEF 10x12 to my inventory, have you heard whether there are any major differences between the 10x12 and the 12x15? I live in Maryland and initially will be hunting where ever I can find open space. I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and the Baltimore area, on the shore I plan to hunt in wooded areas, farms and any older areas I can find. Eventually I want to hunt Civil War Battlefields. I would say just starting out I will be hunting a variety of things, coins, jewelry, relics, etc. I have to say reading your posts and others on the various discussion boards has me excited to get going, but I am trying to get a little education on all this before I jump in not knowing anything so any advice or help will be great. I am curious to learn about ground mineralization and how to know which coil to use and how to adjust the V3 for the different environments I may encounter. So thanks again, and I welcome all advice....

Talk soon, Paul

teckpro

12-29-2009, 12:09 AM

With the 10 DD I dont find any Quantity of coins , however I have found some of my best silver coins . 1 silver coin every 3 hours.

With the 5.3 or 950 I can find 6 to 10 clad coins an hour.

I find I have to swing slow And move slow with the 10 DD to get the deep silver,-harder coil to learn.

thats alot of coils to learn how to use.

ArmyVetPaul

12-29-2009, 12:57 AM

Thanks Teckpro for the advice and sharing your experiences. I am so glad I found this website. I know I am starting with many coils but being retired from the Army and disabled I have all the time in the world to do the research and learn as much as I can and hopefully get some of the knowledge from you guys that have stories, advice and your own experiences to share. Hey I wanted to ask, do the 950 and the 5.3 do about the same thing? I have read a number of discussion threads where people were debating which one was better.
Thanks again, Paul

coinnut

12-29-2009, 01:00 PM

Hey I wanted to ask, do the 950 and the 5.3 do about the same thing? I have read a number of discussion threads where people were debating which one was better.
Thanks again, Paul

Hey Paul, I don't have the V3 but in general, and no matter which detector you have, the 5.3 and the 950 coils are made for different purposes. You will always lose depth with the smaller coil, although sometimes not that much, but you will always gain target separation with the little coil. So if you are in a very trashy area, the smaller coil should find targets that the larger coil couldn't. But if you are covering a large field where targets are apart from one another, you need a coil that goes deep and covers more ground. That's where the 950 would be used. As far as which one is better. That depends on what you find with it lol I never saw the need for a small coil with my DFX until one day I bought the 4x6DD coil and started finding buttons and coins where I've been many times before. Then it was the best coil ever ;)

Manuellar

12-29-2009, 06:37 PM

CyberSage

12-30-2009, 08:00 AM

I have never experienced this before. The only coil that has given me skewed result of that magnitude has been the Bigfoot coil. I will have to check this out.

Jack

del

12-30-2009, 08:14 AM

hey Jack if he (Manuellar) was using this coil on his dfx first is it very likely an older SEF coil , could this coil be calibrated for the lower (15khz) frequency on the dfx and not higher one (22.5khz) the v3 runs at. would that explain the skewed vdi numbers :huh:

Dan

CyberSage

12-30-2009, 02:36 PM

As far as I know they have not manufactured a V3 specific SEF coil. I will do some air testing tonight.

ArmyVetPaul

12-30-2009, 03:20 PM

Hey guys I just ordered the SEF 10x12 and they make a specific coil for Whites that is V3 compatible. They actually carry 5 different SEF 10x12 coils for different manufacturers.

xzlr8n

12-30-2009, 07:45 PM

Strange thing happened today. I was lying on the couch half out of it when I heard what I thought was my new V3 turn on and make some of its usual sounds. Sat there for a moment and thought that was impossible because it was turned off. It has been off for sure since Saturday and was sitting behind me in the corner. Assumed I was hearing things or it was one of my kid's new toys upstairs making similar sounds, my son just started playing with his iPod Touch as he just took it off the computer's USB port and was surfing applications via my Wi-Fi network. I kept hearing the V3 noise so I got up and sure enough the V3 was on and at the turn on screen. Tried to turn it off but the On/Off button did nothing. So I pulled the battery waited a few moments and checked it for normal operation, everything seems to be ok.

What I'm wondering is if the V3 can be frogged up with my WiFi network or an iPod touch?? Has anyone had this happen. Maybe that is why White's recommends taking the battery out when not in use:huh:

By the way I found two pennies, one a '44 wheat, on Saturday making my inaugural V3 hunt a success. Still have a lot to learn as it seems to be quite different from my DFX, especially with the ghosts and all.

SeabeeRon

12-30-2009, 08:14 PM

I am glad you didn't say it was still beeping and talking at ya after you pulled the battery! :confused: :poke: Can't wait to see what Jack has to say about this one! :beatdown:

xzlr8n

12-30-2009, 09:49 PM

Well it just did it again, while I was just sitting here looking at the forum :shocked04:, nothing else electronic wise. I turned it off with the button this time, but I noticed the screen flickered once while being off. I'm leaving the battery out for now :confused:.

del

12-30-2009, 10:07 PM

Well it just did it again and while I was just sitting here looking at the forum :shocked04:. I turned it off with the button this time, but I noticed the screen flickered once while being off. I'm leaving the battery out for now :confused:.

that is strange to say the least , the question is how is Jack at performing exorcisms on a V3 lol lol

CyberSage

12-31-2009, 08:39 AM

Hey guys I just ordered the SEF 10x12 and they make a specific coil for Whites that is V3 compatible. They actually carry 5 different SEF 10x12 coils for different manufacturers.

I am assuming that the they you are referring to is KellyCo. KellyCo is the dealer for the SEF coil. They advertise that it is for the V3, however I think you will find this coil is still not properly nulled for the 22.5 kHz frequency. I still believe it is one of the best coils available for the V3.

Jack

CyberSage

12-31-2009, 08:43 AM

Strange thing happened today. I was lying on the couch half out of it when I heard what I thought was my new V3 turn on and make some of its usual sounds...

Please let us know if it does this with the battery removed. :crazy: lol lol lol

xzlr8n

12-31-2009, 04:39 PM

All quiet with the battery out :grin:. I put an email into White's Service Dept, probably hear from them after they get done laughing rofl, I mean after the New Year. I'll keep you guys posted. This is a strange thing for sure.

CyberSage

12-31-2009, 07:48 PM

Hi for all.
I have a question for CyberSage:
You are using the 10x12 SEF coil with good results. I have found that the SEF 10x12 (this SEF is from my previous DFX) that I use when I use only the frequency 22.5 kHz, a quarter Dolar USA VDI gives me a -85 or so.
Could it be that this coil is ready to reach the frequency of 15Khz and using the frequency of 22.5 kHz Spectra is forced to read VDI?.
Have you tried to read a quarter (silver) with coil SEF using only the 22.5 frequency?
Thank you very much and excuse my language (I can not speak English)
Greetings
Manu

PD:
If I use three frequencies to read the quarter, the spectragraf bar does not rise in 22.5. But it works well for the other two frequencies (2.5 and 7.5).

Manu,

I spent some time with a Quarter in air testing the V3 in the 22.5 kHz mode. Both a clad and a Silver Quarter wrapped all the way to the negative side. This is very typical behavior for a non nulled coil and even the stock D2 coil in certain circumstances. The Clad wrapped to -95 and the Silver to -93. Try including -94 and -95 in your discrimination settings. Change the Custom Tones for these two ranges to 254 and 253 respectively. If your in highly mineralized soil or very rocky soil this will cause a lot of noise though. Fortunately high conductive targets respond much better to lower frequencies (7.5, 2.5). I wouldn't go coin shooting in 22.5 kHz. The MXT pushes the limit at 15 kHz in my opinion, even then I had deep targets wrap around on the MXT as well. I dug a Indian Head at about 9 inches with the MXT and it gave a +95 in one direction and wrapped occasionally to -95. I have never seen the DFX wrap on a coin target to date. Just thought I would follow up on your question.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Lowjiber

01-01-2010, 08:41 AM

Another entry above for The Book of Jack. Thanks Buddy!!!

SeabeeRon

01-01-2010, 12:52 PM

Yeah Jack, that last entry will even help me in swinging my MXT! 8)
Thanks buddy and Happy New Year!

del

01-01-2010, 01:37 PM

very good information Jack , i've experienced negative wrap around with the dfx although it is very rare . it had to do with very very deep targets , the one that comes to mind was a large cent that was around 11 inches deep and gave me a -95 and a null on the vdi 4 out of 5 times swinging the coil over it . the 1 time out of 5 the tone was close to coin sounding and a + 93 , deep iron nails often will do this type of thing so you have to move all around the target to work that signal to try to make it sound better . it finally sounded like a solid coin after about 6 or 7 inches of soil was removed and after all said and done a 1798 large cent came to light.

Dan

CyberSage

01-01-2010, 02:21 PM

There is a plus side to this 22.5 kHz behavior. That advantage it has offered me is in bringing up those deep nickels. This last year I have started digging a lot of older nickels. The frequency elevates low conductors as well. Combined with the Correlate mode they really have a solid signature. Tonal quality on solid symmetrical targets really stand out at depth much more so with the Correlate than the Best Data mode. I found 3 Buffalo and 2 war nickels along with assorted other nickels from the 40's and 50's. They come in around 60 to 70 VDI. If they are deep hits I know this is the signature for a Nickel and not just a Zinc Penny on the surface. Indian Heads come in in the Mid 70's and higher depending on how deep they are. Sooner or later I am going to get me a deep old Gold ring. Using the MXT for awhile has really helped me in understanding deep targets. The MXT has no Tone ID so you had to listen for what I call The Sound Of Round The ramp up and decay of the tone is really noticeably more pronounced on coins than it is on junk and deep iron. This might make a good video example if I can recreate the effect in the coin garden or next time I find a deep nickel in field hunting.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

01-01-2010, 04:47 PM

Jack,

Would the TX boost help correct these -94, -95 signals in older parks or yards??

CyberSage

01-01-2010, 06:28 PM

The TX Boost is intended for use in low mineralized soils. The transmit signal is increased in turn creating a stronger receive signal. I would think the phase shifting would remain the same. It would have been a much more useful setting if you could incrementally control the amount the Transmit signal was boosted. This would let you tweak the signal to your exact mineral content.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

coinnut

01-01-2010, 06:42 PM

It would have been a much more useful setting if you could incrementally control the amount the Transmit signal was boosted. This would let you tweak the signal to your exact mineral content.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

You ain't kidding. That would allow you the closest and hottest settings you could attain. But don't give them any ideas lol I want one sooner or later and I don't want to have to get a Phd in order to run it ;)

ArmyVetPaul

01-02-2010, 01:21 AM

I am assuming that the they you are referring to is KellyCo. KellyCo is the dealer for the SEF coil. They advertise that it is for the V3, however I think you will find this coil is still not properly nulled for the 22.5 kHz frequency. I still believe it is one of the best coils available for the V3.

Jack

Jack are you saying that with the SEF coil you are only using it in single frequency mode, avoiding the 22.5khz freq?

CyberSage

01-02-2010, 10:21 AM

Jack are you saying that with the SEF coil you are only using it in single frequency mode, avoiding the 22.5khz freq?

I do frequently use it in the 2.5 kHz mode only, but most of the time I am in Correlate mode which uses all three frequencies.

hang7575

01-03-2010, 07:14 AM

Jack would like your opinion on setup for the hot soil in Northern Va. The ground probe indicated a signal loss of 40%+. Hunted there for 3 days and found stuff but did not feel comfortable till the 3rd day. I was hunting in relic single freq 22.5, rx 7 dis 75, all metal 60 filter between 10high and 12high recovery 50 sat 20. I may switch to 7.5 but the reason I hunted in 22.5 because it seemed to be the quietest due to the proximity of alot of other machines. I will be going there again in March and would like your or anyone who has hunted there with the Vs opinion on a setup Thanks Andy

CyberSage

01-03-2010, 10:27 AM

Let me start off by making a disclaimer. I know nothing about relic hunting :) That being said lets talk a little about what your up against. The higher frequencies like the V3 22.5 kHz is less susceptible to EMI than lower frequencies. This is why it was quieter for you near the other detectors. The catch here is that it's the lower frequency is more capable of penetrating that bad ground. The default relic program uses a Best data 3 frequency mode, but this could be very noisy in your bad ground. I think your idea of going to the 7.5khz is a good one. I would slow down your recovery time as well to 80-100. To fast of recovery time can rapidly decrease your depth. This requires slower coil movement though. Set your filters as low as you can and still get penetration. Lower filter settings really have a pronounced quieting effect. Not beneficial for bad ground though. If your after bullets and buttons take a few with you and bury them at the depth you feel the good stuff is at. Work over the targets until the response is what you desire. You should be using a DD coil of some kind as well. They will cut the mineralization better than a concentric. A smaller DD coil like the 6x9 or even smaller will give better depth in this soil then the D2. I don't like the D2 coil on the V3. I think it is the best coil ever made for the MXT, but performs badly on the V3. Just my opinion. Hope this helps out some. Please share your results with us and let us know if you make any discoveries. Good luck

Keep Swing'in
Jack

hang7575

01-03-2010, 02:58 PM

Thanks Jack for the reply. I also was using mixed mode but had the idea of using all metal with no disc. You pretty much can completely disregard the VDIs because bullets read like nails or hot rocks. Pretty much have to dig everything till you get the feel of whats happening.The TDIs absolutley rule in this ground but I dont have one so I will use what I have.

Sandman

01-03-2010, 05:00 PM

Currently using a modified version of Jacks program. I was in a park with a lot of trash and found some solid tones that yielded some dimes and pennies. Hit the tot lot and found some quarters which sounded off nicely. Not sure what to expect with jewlery though? How does it act?

Since I have not found silver or gold yet with the V3, will it be a high tone with sharp camel backs? It becomes hard to know what to discriminate out to elimate the trash signals without missing the gold. Just curious and any VDI numbers to watch out for would be appreicated.

I was digging the classic repeatable tones.

Used to minelabs and getting used to the V3 and also using the 4x6 coil.

Thanks Crew!

Chad

randy

01-03-2010, 05:51 PM

It becomes hard to know what to discriminate out to elimate the trash signals without missing the gold. Just curious and any VDI numbers to watch out for would be appreicated.

Only found one gold so far with the V3 -- 5gr man's wedding band, VDI 41, red freq dominant. Using stock CJ program. Ring was verified 14K by the refiner, so gold can ring this high (and probably higher for class rings). My wife's rings air test around VDI 21-24.

I'm not aware of a magic program to reliably weed out the trash and find the gold. I've dug a ton of sweet-sounding pulltabs :mad:

Fishnmaine

01-03-2010, 05:56 PM

Sandman

01-03-2010, 06:35 PM

rofl I found some sweet pulltabs too. Some had a strong 22.5 signal and others were 7.5. Quarters wake me up everytime with a powerful 22.5 and nice humps. Pennys so far are +55 and sometimes I get a +47. The areas I hunt have so much junk that my machine is busy making noise in between +26 and +37. Still getting a feel and dig almost everything that is solid in tone and repeatable with humps. My sterling silver ring I found with my Excal has inverted humps. Trying to get this figured out... :confused:

CyberSage

01-03-2010, 09:14 PM

Jack ,You stated that the SEF 10x12 is one of the best coil for the V3......if it's not nulled how can it be the best? I noticed they sell it for the V but it's not nulled for it...I always stuck with Whites products....but sometimes other manufactures can produce a coil that can be better.......Of course depending on the conditions in your area...May I ask what kind of soil conditions you have in your area? Right know the 950 coil is best for my soil conditions......Which is low to med......have you researched if they will be a nulled version of this coil? I might be asking allot but can you explain why you feel this coil does well?
Thanks

Hello Fishnmaine,

My soil ranges from moderate out in the plains and gets progressively higher as you move toward the Rocky Mountains. Most of the parks and parkway strips and properties I hunt are in the moderate category. On to the topic of properly nulled coils versus the non-nulled variety. I have used both types in many different styles on the V3. Lets recap what the issues are with non nulled coils. Firstly, they give off slightly elevated VDI readings in the 22.5 kHz frequency. The 2.5 and 7.5 frequencies are unaffected. Secondly, they can not be used with the TX Boost setting past a Rx Gain of around 8 or 9 in general. They also have a tendency to overload above a setting of 14. I should also mention the behavior of the Bigfoot coil is affected in this way as well. Because of it's unique design of a front to back alignment of the DD style coil the results are skewed in another way as well. The back coil mirrors the front coil so all graphing on the analyze screen is inverted as well when using the back half of the coil. So the question is how can a non-nulled coil be better? I am a coinshooter for the most part so the lower two frequencies are the ones that do the work for me. I use a Correlate program which uses the 22.5 Frequency as well, but I have learned to deal with it by allowing for the wrap effect in the discrimination pattern and tone response. I would venture to say that the wrap function of the Correlate mode was put there by Whites because they knew deeper targets even with a nulled coil could be a problem. Like I said the elevated response has actually benefited me when it comes to finding very deep low conductor targets. As far as TX Boost and reduced RX Gain limitations, they are so far up the scale on the settings it is a non issue for me. I have more power than can be forced into the mineralized ground. I very rarely set my RX Gain above 9 even with a nulled coil. What I believe makes the SEF stand out is the results I started getting with it in very short order after putting it on the V3. I was a Super12 fan on the DFX, still am for that matter. I have a nulled Super12 coil I have used quite a bit, but the coin garden quickly showed the depth advantage the 10x12 SEF had over not only the Super12, but any other coil I had in my possession including the D2 coil. The 12x15 SEF goes even deeper if you don't have a trashy hunting area. I honestly don't know what kind of magic Detech is working with the SEF coils, I just know they have fantastic depth and great separation at depth. I have a clad dime buried at 10 inches in my local park. It sings like it's on the surface. I sold my D2 coil the next week. ;)

Keep Swing'in
Jack

ArmyVetPaul

01-03-2010, 11:22 PM

Question for Jack and anyone really,
Hope my questions aren't stupid or annoy anyone, I am a newbie and trying to learn as much as I can. So, how can I tell what my ground mineralization is? I mean levels like weak, moderate or heavy. There are 2 ground probes on the V3 one by pressing zoom on the sensitivity in the live screen and another by pressing zoom on the ground tracking on the live screen. Is there a way to use the numbers from these screen to tell me what kind of ground I have. I found some info but just confused me. I read something about holding coil in the air and zero it and if the numbers were 0-1 it meant weak mineralization, 5-10 moderate an 10 plus heavy. Sounds easy enough but I can't find what they are talking about on my V3.... Can anyone help:huh:

Hope everyone had a safe and happy new year
Paul

hang7575

01-03-2010, 11:44 PM

Go to ground tracking in live screen ,press zoom hold in air press menu, lower to the ground and the percentages at the bottom are the amount of signal loss. I saw a post from one of the whites engineers I think it was 0-10% was low 11-20% was moderate and 21 up is high mineralization that may not be exact but somewhere around there. Bury a target and see which filter works the best for your sweep speed and your ground. Hope this helps

xzlr8n

01-03-2010, 11:57 PM

Fishnmaine

01-04-2010, 05:58 PM

Hello Fishnmaine,

My soil ranges from moderate out in the plains and gets progressively higher as you move toward the Rocky Mountains. Most of the parks and parkway strips and properties I hunt are in the moderate category. On to the topic of properly nulled coils versus the non-nulled variety. I have used both types in many different styles on the V3. Lets recap what the issues are with non nulled coils. Firstly, they give off slightly elevated VDI readings in the 22.5 kHz frequency. The 2.5 and 7.5 frequencies are unaffected. Secondly, they can not be used with the TX Boost setting past a Rx Gain of around 8 or 9 in general. They also have a tendency to overload above a setting of 14. I should also mention the behavior of the Bigfoot coil is affected in this way as well. Because of it's unique design of a front to back alignment of the DD style coil the results are skewed in another way as well. The back coil mirrors the front coil so all graphing on the analyze screen is inverted as well when using the back half of the coil. So the question is how can a non-nulled coil be better? I am a coinshooter for the most part so the lower two frequencies are the ones that do the work for me. I use a Correlate program which uses the 22.5 Frequency as well, but I have learned to deal with it by allowing for the wrap effect in the discrimination pattern and tone response. I would venture to say that the wrap function of the Correlate mode was put there by Whites because they knew deeper targets even with a nulled coil could be a problem. Like I said the elevated response has actually benefited me when it comes to finding very deep low conductor targets. As far as TX Boost and reduced RX Gain limitations, they are so far up the scale on the settings it is a non issue for me. I have more power than can be forced into the mineralized ground. I very rarely set my RX Gain above 9 even with a nulled coil. What I believe makes the SEF stand out is the results I started getting with it in very short order after putting it on the V3. I was a Super12 fan on the DFX, still am for that matter. I have a nulled Super12 coil I have used quite a bit, but the coin garden quickly showed the depth advantage the 10x12 SEF had over not only the Super12, but any other coil I had in my possession including the D2 coil. The 12x15 SEF goes even deeper if you don't have a trashy hunting area. I honestly don't know what kind of magic Detech is working with the SEF coils, I just know they have fantastic depth and great separation at depth. I have a clad dime buried at 10 inches in my local park. It sings like it's on the surface. I sold my D2 coil the next week. ;)

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Thanks Jack for that great information... thumbsup01

CyberSage

01-04-2010, 06:54 PM

Jack,

Have you played (or can you play) with bottle cap or hot rock adjustments while using your Correlate Program?? Also, I was wondering if accepting down to -30 VDI in discrimination does anything like it did for the DFX. I cannot remember exactly why accepting down to -30 helped out on the DFX, but I believe this was a recommended setting Jeff Foster had in his book?? I see you like accepting > +40 VDI in your deep coin correlate program.

I used to set the hot rock reject to 10 on the DFX version of the correlate program. This setting caused the DFX to ignore hot rocks and not elicit a tone response for +95. This helped to quiet things down a bit. I choose to disable this feature on the V3 and use modulation instead with the range set to 4. This will lower the volume on most of the hot rocks and the coins will still sound loudly even when deep. I got this hint from Bob at Whites Electronics one time. Using this to any degree in the current correlate program would cause the breakup of good targets that are on the edge of wrapping.

I never have been a fan of Bottle Cap Reject. I just squeeze the pinpoint trigger and see if the 22.5 frequency is the strongest responder to the target. This does a great job of picking out the bottle caps. It would be be a good thing to experiment with and see if it affects the response of a deep target.

I use a -20 setting on the DFX version of the correlate program because it kept the DFX from nulling so much and served to keep the threshold more stable. I would rather have a grunt from iron in the ground than a discrimination null any day. I raised this to +40 to quiet the V3 down. It's was to noisy. Coins all hit higher than this even nickels. If you want to include surface and shallow nickels along with shallow gold rings and jewelry you probably want to drop this to at least +5. I am after coins so I keep it higher.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

01-04-2010, 09:22 PM

Thanks Jack.. I speculated the hot rocks fcn would interfere with the +95 and wrap responses.

It is interesting that you use the Modulation fcn. I thought Modulation as per DFX days made deeper targets sound weaker, hence a good deep target. Problem was you might miss the tone?? Is Modulation better on the V3?? Also, is the range set to 4 good for low mineralized ground.

On a different note, what do you do if you get alot of +95 targeting with your Corellate program??

CyberSage

01-04-2010, 11:26 PM

The Modulation setting is greatly enhanced in the Spectra V3 and seems to make good use of the stereo output. The Range setting is key to adjusting this to your listening pleasure, so to speak. The signal from Hot Rocks are generally weak in nature compared to that of a deep coin. So the trick is adjusting the range up enough to quiet the Hot Rocks but not the coins. In my moderate soil 4 seems to work very well for me. This is truly a setting you have to adjust on the fly for your hunting area. If your not sure adjust this to 3 as a starting point. The coins will still scream at you if this is adjusted right. The mineralization of the ground does change how this range settings behave. The lower your mineralization the scale goes from 0-5. The higher your mineralization the effect seems to shift and reverse itself, so 5 becomes the less noticeable change and 0 is the most pronounced. Confused? Well to be honest me too, lol but This is how it was explained to me by an engineer at Whites.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

01-14-2010, 08:38 PM

Nothing Earth shattering to report, but I did receive my Santa Pack stuff from White's today. I picked the Super 12 and added a 9.5 Eclipse concentric purchase to the deal.

Sounds like the 9.5 will be the one to use from what I've read here on this thread. I'll use the Super 12 for sports fields and older homes after I've gone through them with the smaller coils. I'll put the d2 on my MXT, as Jack has said it will work good on this machine.

I cannot wait for WINTER to be over!! :bangahead01:

coinnut

01-14-2010, 08:48 PM

Sounds like you have a great selection of coils. Good luck on winter being over though lol I wish it were. ;) Can't wait to see some more reports on that machine. It has the capabilities of being a great machine once you can find the right settings for your type and place of hunting.

CyberSage

01-14-2010, 10:38 PM

Great selection of coils xzlr8n! Take the time to experiment with all of these coils for yourself. Looking forward to hearing about your experience in the field. I would recommend you give the D2 a try on the V3. It's not my favorite, but it is important to experience the V3 as the engineers designed it. If nothing else it provides a reference point for other coils you try on the Spectra. The D2 is killer on the MXT. It will run extremely deep. Watch for those 92 to 95 VDI range repeatable targets on the MXT. They will pinpoint very lightly. Things are starting to thaw out a little bit here. The ground is frozen hard, but there are some open spots starting to appear in the park. I will probably be out there looking for targets I can't dig. :rolleyes: . Congratulations on the new toys!

Keep Swing'in
Jack

P.S. Here is a shot of the dig site of an Indian Head penny found at 9.5 inches with the MXT and the D2 coil.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o187/CyberSageBH3300/1899Site.jpg

Lope_along

01-17-2010, 05:08 PM

Howdy,

My first post here. I go by That'll_Do on DFXonly.com but
I guess this site doesn't like apostrophes in usernames so
I'm Lope-along here. I'm relatively new to MD'ing and I have
a DFX with 950 & 14DD coils and a V3 with 10&quot:grin:2 & V-rated 950.

I see many names here I have seen before and highly respect too.
I'd like to throw out a V3 and coils question in hopes of getting
some informative answers. Personal opinions are always welcome too.
My question(s) is:

I would like two basic V3 coil set-ups for my machine - One for
Coin cherry-picking, one for slower searching Coin & Jewelry type goals.

I am aware many might say dig it all or why go over the same ground twice.
Well, it's my time and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't have a lot of
areas close-in to go to anyway so cherry-picking followed by more thorough
crawls over more productive ground suits me at this stage of my learning.

My ground is generally Highly mineralized and often High Trash as well.
I often woods hunt so large SEF's might not be the best choice but if you
think otherwise feel free to educate me. If I were asked to answer this
question on my own my reply would be to use the V-rated 950 for C&J slower
hunting and a V-rated 6x10DD for Cherry-picking in challenging ground.

I like my 14DD and don't mind the weight but I consider having aa V-rated
coil important for the V3. Not sure if DD coils are fast enough for such
cherry-picking chores.

Thoughts Anyone?

Lope_along

coinnut

01-17-2010, 07:46 PM

Hi, First off, welcome aboard. I think CyberSage is our resident expert on that V3 :yes: But I can give you a general idea of what I would do. I had the DFX and tried various coils on it. I know the V3 is not a DFX but the engeneering technology may be similar. I tried the 9.5, 6x10DD, 8x14DD, and 4x6DD on the DFX. I always went back to the stock 9.5. The minerals in my area are not that hot. My trash picking coil was the 4x6. So for me it was a 9.5 and a 4x6 coil. Never like the 8x14 monster coil. I guess I wasn't patient enough with it lol I think Jack had some good results with the SEF coils though? Give it a couple of days and let's see what the real experts can come up with (not me lol)

RickO

01-18-2010, 05:39 PM

Welcome aboard Lope_along... good to see you here. HH RickO

Leon

01-18-2010, 08:47 PM

I'm new to this forum, I bought the V3 a few months back. All though I've found but one silver I seem to have no problem with gold jewelry. I'm now experimenting with the excelerator 6x8 sef butterfly and I'm loving it. It's been very stable and seems to go pretty deep. I did have to learn to slow down my swing with this machine to get better separation in high mineral soil though. The pic I post with this thread were all found with the V3 within the first month of ownership.

Epi-hunter

01-18-2010, 08:58 PM

coinnut

01-18-2010, 09:00 PM

Nice finds. It seems like you and the V3 are getting along just fine lol I love that Barber coinage. Do you find a lot of them Chinese cash coins?? Are you on the west coast? I see a lot of them turn up there. Nice jewelry too. It will not take you long to pay for that machine at that rate thumbsup01

CyberSage

01-19-2010, 08:18 AM

I would like two basic V3 coil set-ups for my machine - One for
Coin cherry-picking, one for slower searching Coin & Jewelry type goals...

...My ground is generally Highly mineralized and often High Trash as well.
I often woods hunt so large SEF's might not be the best choice but if you
think otherwise feel free to educate me. If I were asked to answer this
question on my own my reply would be to use the V-rated 950 for C&J slower
hunting and a V-rated 6x10DD for Cherry-picking in challenging ground.

I would highly recommend the the Eclipse 6x10 DD coil. It will deal with the mineralization and help you in trashy areas. Sounds like you have it all figured out already. The 950 being concentric will not do as well in higher mineral content soils. Keep us up to date and welcome to the forum

Keep Swing'in
Jack

CyberSage

01-19-2010, 08:24 AM

Nice pile of loot you have there Leon! Very impressive for 2 months. Chains are tough targets you seem to have the knack. I am very interested in your experience withe the little SEF coil. Please keep us filled in on your discoveries with this coil. The slow swing is really the secret with the V3. Welcome to American Detectorist. Looking forward to hearing about you metal detecting adventures.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Lope_along

01-19-2010, 10:11 AM

Thanks for getting back to me, Jack.

The (V-rated) 6x10 is fer sure my next coil.
I wasn't sure how fast or slow an elliptical would be as compared with a concentric.
That is to say, if the narrower slice of ground the elliptical is reading meant that
you had to go slower for the unit to process the info it was recieving as compared
to a concentric which is reading a larger area of ground. It sounds like the V3 will
handle both fine. I think there's a natural tendency to swing a little quicker when
cherry-picking as you have fewer operator judgements to make re: Dig or Not Dig.

Lope_along

Leon

01-20-2010, 12:52 PM

Thanks Jack, I have found that the V3 is great on gold chains which the XLT and The DFX had problems with. They found rings fine but had a problem with chains. As for the SEF coil that excelarator puts out I have found it to be very stable in high mineral soil so far. I am still working with it and trying various adjustments to see if I can increase the depth without falsing......As I'm sure some of the V3 user's have experienced/

xzlr8n

01-22-2010, 11:10 PM

Well I tried my V3 today at my neighbors farm house. I tried Jack's correlate program and didn't have any definite coin signals, not too many left as I have hammered this site with w/ my DFX and MXT. Ground is still frozen good where I am at so I didn't even bother to bring my digger to recover anything. I was itching to get out and swing a bit just to see how the machine worked.

First observation was that I had a lot of false signaling and some repeatable +95 signals showing the the old horseshoe icon. I couldn't get any peak formations in the analyze screen so I'm assumed this stuff was junk iron. I did hit some solid +3 vdi targets with one target that peaked nicely in all three frequencies with 22.5 being the highest, is this gold or aluminium??. Hit some other lower VDI targets that jumped a bit and didn't analyze all that great so I assumed those to be definately aluminium or foil of some sort. I tried the stock coin and jewelry program and also had some false signaling and nulling going on with this same patch of ground, which supports the junk targets.

Question for Jack and others: How do you quiet down your correlate program a bit and should I be investigating those +95 targets with no peaks at the lower frequencies (did I just answer my own ? :cheesysmile:). Seems like I'll be rechecking a lot of iffy signals with no good target to be found with my current setup.

CyberSage

01-23-2010, 11:15 PM

Hey xzlr8n!

To get started answering your question I have a couple of questions for you. What coil were you using? What do you feel the mineralization content of the soil in this area you hunted? At what depth were the previous finds at this site?

Excessive +95 hits could be from several things. Hot rocks or high mineralization is the most common. Having the gain set to high, and moving the coil to fast are other possibilities. Remember with lower filter settings coil movement becomes more critical. Of course with the hunt location being an old farm you could just be dealing with lots of rusty deep iron. The later should be recognizable by an unusual large number of spiking hits in the negative VDI range. Let's see if we can figure out what your dealing with here.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

01-24-2010, 06:17 PM

CyberSage

01-24-2010, 08:30 PM

Jack,

I was using the 10 D2 coil. The mineralization is relatively low, although there is iron and foil debris. I have pulled old horeshoes and bladepoints at this site some being 8-12 deep that sounded pretty good at times on my MXT. I have pulled indian heads at 3 to 8 deep here, several wheats at 6-8, one '51 Rosie, two buffalos, and '02 V-nickle.

I used the 5 hz high filter, swinging slowly. The recommended RX gain was 6, I tried 9 and 6. 6 was quieter, although I wonder how my depth is being compromised.

This site is tough on wheats and IH's, so I wonder how the mineralization really is.

Sounds like the PH of the soil is acidic. Is there evergreen trees of some kind in the area? I have to be honest with you I have always struggled with the D2 coil. I just went down to my local metal detecting shop this weekend and picked up a new D2 coil. My first 2 where bad and finally Whites was kind enough to replace it with a V rated Super12 coil. That was 7 months ago. I wanted to get another so I could experience the V3 as the engineers at Whites designed it. I got this new coil home and strapped it on the V3 and am experiencing horrible EMI issues. It is unusable at my home coin garden and I can only get the RX up to 5 in the local park. Now I can run my V- rated Super 12 up to 14 and maintain stability in the park. The SEF will go to 11 or 12. 2.5 kHz is the worst. Using the probe function in the air I get 15 in all three frequencies. This tells me it is properly nulled. There is a huge noise problem though. I think I will take this opportunity to send both the D2 coil and the V3 back to Whites for a checkup. Ground is hard as a rock right now so no big deal. I desperately want to work with the D2 coil, but just can't seem to catch a break. Sorry I am really no help, but lets give it a shot...

I would try the 5hz Band Pass and turn on your modulation and set the range to 3 or so. This will at least quiet those 95's some. You can also experiment with locking your ground tracking. (turn it off) If you do this remember to ground balance often. Hope this helps. When I get my unit back I will go to work with the D2 coil and share my results here on the forum.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

01-24-2010, 09:44 PM

Jack,

I really don't have too much time on this machine so it is hard to say if I have a good V3 and 10 D2 or not. If you remember my post about my V3 spontaneously turning on, I did talk to Todd at Whites about it and he said he hadn't heard of the problem before but did say anything is possible with electronics. Since then I did come home to find my V3 on again one more time, it is always turned off before I put it in its corner. So I just might send mine back just to get it checked out. At least get the ghost in the machine out rofl.

I have plenty of time before any prime hunting will be had where I'm at anyway. Besides I want to make sure the machine is 100% so I can rule out the machine and blame myself for my problems.

CyberSage

01-25-2010, 05:30 PM

I thought I would post a little follow up on the EMI issues with the new D2 coil. I took it out again today and same problem as mentioned in the above message. I remember on my DFX when you want to reset or reboot the computer in the detector you dump the battery while the detector is on. I have not seen this documented for the V3, but gave it a try anyway. BINGO! Things got very quiet and I was easily able to drill every coin in the test garden. I would really like to verify this procedure before everybody starts dumping out there batteries and doing possible damage to the V3. Has anyone heard of this on the V3 before? In any case the D2 coil is performing nicely now and I can start experimenting with it. I am really trying to overcome my dislike for this coil and do some in depth comparisons over deep test targets in my local park. If only the snow would go away. >:\

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Lope_along

01-25-2010, 06:14 PM

The sole reference I can find to it in any White's literature is:

â€¢ Removing battery does NOT restore factory programs.

This is found on pg12 of the Field Guide.
Honestly, to me yanking the batts sounds like what Computers Guys used to call a Cold Boot.
Such as is used when confronted by the Blue Screen of Death,etc. I do it on my home PC every
once in a while whether there's a problem or not and it always improves performance - for a while.

Don't know if this helps,

Lope_along

CyberSage

01-25-2010, 08:06 PM

I think this is reference to the V3 being set up differently from the DFX. On the DFX if you pull the battery out you will loose any changes you have made to the loaded programs. The hard reset (pulling the battery while the detector is on) would force the DFX computer to do a bios level boot and refresh the environment. On the V3 you can make changes and they will be preserved even with the battery pulled out. This is the function of storage memory somewhat like a USB memory stick does. What I am referring to is the the state of the operating environment. It definitely made a difference. I did have the battery out overnight charging and when I initially put it back in I had the same problem. When I took it out with the V3 on is when things got a lot better. I will try and give Whites a call.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Lope_along

01-25-2010, 09:41 PM

No, I still think we're talking about the same basic thing. It's just that I lack the White's or PC expertise
to prove what I'm saying in the proper engineering lingo.

You probably already know that most computers have two basic ways of storing operating instructions:
RAM and ROM. ROM never gets erased (at least in theory) and RAM which stores dynamically and anything
loading into RAM will be instantly lost if power fails. The classic example is a document that you forgot to
back up, the power fails, and you've lost everything and have to start over again. Often times, after much
usage these same operating instructions can get shotgunned around to different mapped locations in
the RAM so that the PC's ability to seek, assemble, and carry out said instructions becomes bogged down.
A full power down to OFF, brief wait, and re-boot (NOT A Restart) will often refresh your memory, decrease
seek time and hence, the computer is faster, smoother.

Please understand I am not lecturing - I know many out there have college degrees in this and Im not trying
to toot my own horn here. All I'm saying is that perhaps yanking the batteries is improving your machine's
apparent functioning by a similar action. Clearly, the Library must be in some form of ROM, and clearly on-the-fly
changes must add to what the RAM is dealing with - along with all the various screens, color schemes, and other
expert instructions. If I'm right is that a good thing to have to do ? Definitely not. I'm just making an analogy to
your problem and the solution others have found - with computers that is.

Again, Cybersage - Not talking down to anyone anywhere, just trying to make my point. It remains a honest issue
whether your particular machine - or the state of your batts - might somehow be off in some way. I don't know.
I think it would be great to hear what White's sez on this.

Lope_along

xzlr8n

01-26-2010, 12:11 AM

Jack,

Was wondering if you tried the frequency offset option with the D2 to quiet it down?? One of the recommendations in the manual to quiet things down and possibly use a higher RX gain is adjusting the frequency offset. I haven't tried it yet to see if it does anything for me.

Sidenote w/D2, when I was at my farm site I started the machine at RX gain of 9 and then did a ground probe and the machine said best gain was 6, so I tried mine at 6 and did another probe and it said best RX gain was 5 :confused:. So, I too am wondering whats up with the D2. I don't have EMI noise problems per say like you but I'm definately using lower RX gain #'s. I'm going to give Whites a call before I send mine back, maybe there is some things I can try or learn to ease my uneasiness. Still cannot explain why it turns itself on though:huh:thinkingabout:

Scott

CyberSage

01-26-2010, 08:19 AM

Was wondering if you tried the frequency offset option with the D2 to quiet it down?? One of the recommendations in the manual to quiet things down and possibly use a higher RX gain is adjusting the frequency offset.

That's a great idea Scott. I have not tried that yet. I will see if makes a difference. The D2 is doing a lot better now. I have a call into whites to try and get an explanation of what happened when I first put the D2 on the detector.

Jack

CyberSage

01-26-2010, 09:29 AM

No, I still think we're talking about the same basic thing. It's just that I lack the White's or PC expertise
to prove what I'm saying in the proper engineering lingo.

You probably already know that most computers have two basic ways of storing operating instructions:
RAM and ROM. ROM never gets erased (at least in theory) and RAM which stores dynamically and anything
loading into RAM will be instantly lost if power fails.

Andrew,
In the case of the V3 we are dealing very specific types of Non-volatile memory. I believe the library of the V3 is stored in a memory configuration know as (EPROM) Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory. The user based custom programs or stored in a configuration known as (EEPROM) Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory. As you make changes to your programs, even without saving them they are retained in the EEPROM. On the DFX these changes were not automatically written and as a consequence lost when the battery was removed. The V3 has approximately 164 times the memory as the DFX. The processor of the V3 is a RISC processor. In there documentation Whites states that this is a Freescale ARM-9 without built in memory. I have not found any documentation on the RAM operating environment as of yet. I am waiting for a return phone call from Whites to speak with a technician. I will try and make good notes so I can accurately share them here on the forum. Looking back onto various DFX documentation there is continuing reference to removing the battery while the detector is on as opposed to taking the battery out after the unit is turned off. Jimmy (Sierra) Normandi refers to this as a cold boot. To clarify my question, does this procedure have an effect on the V3 as well.

Jack

Leon

01-26-2010, 02:09 PM

Ok, Guys I'm going to a site I've tried working a couple of times this Thurs. I've made a couple of adjustments to the V3 ...........I will report back on friday.........A pic of the site.

Leon

01-26-2010, 02:11 PM

If the Adjustments work well I will give out the program adjustments :embarrassed:

CyberSage

01-26-2010, 03:00 PM

Thanks Leon! Good luck with the hunt.

Jack

RickO

01-26-2010, 03:56 PM

Leon, is that a cellar hole? Good luck... RickO

Lope_along

01-27-2010, 09:22 AM

Cybersage,

Thanks for the clarification. I hope we have a definitive soon on your problem and that it is not major.
In the meanwhile, thanks for all your helpful contributions - they are appreciated.

Lope_along

xzlr8n

01-27-2010, 07:21 PM

Tried out my V3 with the 950 concentric at the same farm site I've mentioned before and I'm still getting a lot of +95, -94 iron hits w/ Jack's correlate program. I guess I'll have to make some adjustments to combat the iron responses?? Interestingly, I ground balanced and ground probed an area that I did for the D2 and was able to get a recommended RX gain of 11-12 vs. 5-6 for the D2. I'm finding in my very short experience that the D2 coil might not be good in my area. Whites has yet to get back with me on why these two different coils can have such a wide discrepancy in Best RX Gains!!!

CyberSage

01-27-2010, 07:52 PM

I am Happy to announce the noise issue is not only under control but the D2 coil is performing better than ever. Adjusting the frequency offset really did the trick. Thanks for the tip Scott! I ran across a post by a White's employee which gave a tip on how to adjust this setting quickly and effectively using the Live Control Bar and the pinpoint mode. Here is how it works.

1.Go to the Advanced Menu and choose Configure - Live Controls - Expand
Note: This first step will stick if you save your program again.

2. Hold the coil up in the air at waste level.

3. Now go to your live search screen and squeeze the pinpoint trigger. Don't let go of this until the last step.

4. With the trigger squeezed, arrow over to Transmit Frequency and hit the up arrow.

5. Choose the Offset and use the up and down arrows to select from -5 to +5.

6. You will hear the V3 get noisier and quieter with the changing settings. Choose the quietest sounding setting.

7. Let go of the pinpoint trigger.

You now have adjusted your detector to deal with noise in your hunting area.

I went from an RX Gain of setting of 3 all the way up to 6 in my EMI infested coin garden in my yard. With the Discrimination sensitivity set to 92 I was hitting a wheat at 8 inches with the D2 very easily. I am going to bury a deeper coin out in the garden when the ground thaws out. This procedure sounds hard but once you do it a couple of times it will get easier. Can't wait to get to my coin garden in the park. That's where the deep coins are buried. If only the Snow would melt. :bangahead01: and YES! I shovel my coin garden along with the sidewalk and driveway when it snows. lol

Keep Swing'in
Jack

rcsnake

01-27-2010, 09:05 PM

If the emi (external noise) is not to bad using the 5Hz bandpass filter will help out on cutting down on some of the noise as this has worked for me in a few places. The High pass filters will allow more of the emi signals/noise to effect effect the audio while the bandpass filters will help stop some of the emi noise/signals So this may be worth a try in those types of areas with emi noise.

And then as pointed out earlier in a post, changing to a single frequency and then using the frequency offset will help some.

rcsnake

CyberSage

01-27-2010, 09:49 PM

xzlr8n

01-28-2010, 12:07 AM

Jack,

Was wondering about the Configure to Transmit Frequency setup you outlined. Can you get to this application thru Live Controls, Sensitivity, tab down to Frequency Offset. I'm just a little lost, is your steps a better path to changing this?? What does Configure do on the V3, does it allow you hear the changes as you make them??

What a great thread this is. I have learned a lot even before I've done any serious detecting with this machine. Thanks for everyone's thoughts here!!

Scott

CyberSage

01-28-2010, 12:16 AM

After posting this I read it again and it does seem very confusing. I am going to shoot a video of the procedure this weekend and post it. Sorry about the confusion. It works very well in noisy areas though. Bare with me and I will try to get this explained better.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

rcsnake

01-28-2010, 12:23 AM

Hello rcsnake!

Very happy you stumbled onto the forum. Boy do I have questions for you. Please tell us about dumping the battery while the detector is on. Does this do anything special in terms of reseting the V3. On several post I have read it was implied that this did have a use on the DFX. Thanks for the great information as always. Welcome to American Detectorist.

Jack

Pulling the battery out while the detector is on will do the obvious and turn the detector off. However, changes made to a program that has not been saved through the expert menu or by turning the detector off with the keypad will be lost if the battery is pulled out when the instrument is on.

The program saved can be thought of as three programs

1. Changes made on the fly while hunting will be saved when turned off with the keypad. This save is not the same as going into the Expert Menu and saving.

2. Saving a program when saving through the Expert Menu/Program/name of program. Can be different from the current loaded program. Hence the triangle and check marks to alert the user to the programs them being different or the same.

3. Programs saved in the library can be different from the two above and still retain the same name. However Factory programs can not be overwritten in the library as they are the defaults.

As far as resetting the machine it basically just turns its off or unfreezes the detector if frozen up and then starts up new when turned on, so if you consider this a reset then it resets if not then it doesn't reset and just starts back up.

OK, I rambled enough and probably made no sense so I will stop for now. HH

rcsnake

CyberSage

01-28-2010, 08:11 AM

I think this answered my question. Thank you for the clarification. I am now wondering what happened to change my D2 noise issue initially though? I guess at this point it does not matter, but its good to know about the effect of this procedure. Thanks again rcsnake!

Jack

Lowjiber

01-28-2010, 08:56 AM

Thanks for the post, Bob!!!

You're one of my heroes. We all appreciate your advice and knowledge. You're already in The Book of Jack, but I'm sure there's many more chapters ahead. :rolleyes:

CyberSage

01-28-2010, 04:44 PM

OK, here is a little video on using the live controls and pinpoint mode to choose your frequency offset value. Hope this makes a little more sense than my previous post.

V3a.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjYlV7mgT8E#)

Give it a try. It may help you out. This is something that should be done at each hunt location where you have noise issues as the range and type of interference varies from place to place.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

del

01-28-2010, 04:58 PM

that was a great little video Jack , very informative and perfect how too do it . thumbsup01

coinnut

01-28-2010, 05:16 PM

Wow, super video Jack. It just shows me how much that machine has hidded in all them controls. I bet in a year or two a complete book will be out to explain many of those features. It is definitely a capable machine. thumbsup01 I bet that helps some V3'ers a lot.

Lowjiber

01-28-2010, 06:01 PM

Jack...That video was better than Avatar, and I saw IT on IMAX!!! :shocked04:

Terrific job.

You ARE the man!!!!

xzlr8n

01-28-2010, 07:10 PM

Jack,

That was a great video, answered a lot of ??'s for me. That looks to be very useful info for any V3 owner!!! White's ought to give a $100 coupon for that, that is better than a lot of their customer treasure stories!!! Put on YouTube:huh:

Scott

CyberSage

01-29-2010, 04:14 PM

I shot another little video today with a new hands free camera. I was trying to show my swing speed when I hunt. I posted this in the metal detecting gear area of the forum as I was mainly testing out the glasses...

http://www.americandetectorist.com/forum/index.php?topic=811.0

Jack

Leon

01-29-2010, 06:32 PM

As soon as I resize some photos I will post them.Ok, I went to the site I posted yesterday......There is alot, and when I say alot I mean alot of trash........Anyway, I ran almost exclusively in relic....I really had to work hard for what I got. Plenty of age indicators......So there should be a coin there some where....I have adjusted my audio so that targets hit as high tones and trash low, turned the recovery delay down ( for a quicker recovery ) This machine works different then The xlt, or the dfx....When you turn up the delay on this machine, it literally delays the recovery, where as on the xlt & dfx it speed up the recovery. Set a track off-set of +1, ran in 7.5 and 10 band, Disc. @ 87, all metal @72, auto-trac was on and set @50, bottle cap reject@+2, With hot rock @ +0, I have also changed my screen to resemble the display of an xlt or dfx, However when you pinpoint or analyze you still get the three freg. view. It just allows you to make your decision to dig on the VDI numbers and not by which color bar is responding best. Even though you still get all three colors when pinpointing or analyzing. As soon as I resize some photos I will post them. :huh:

Leon

01-29-2010, 06:48 PM

Here are some of the things found....I put the NottaHook in a shadow box, the Levi rivet is an early one before they started stamping Levi Strauss & Son on them, the lantern piece is a Scoville Mfg. Co. Queen Anne Burner, What I think is a Cuff Link or Collar Clip......There where lots of square nails also. :confused:

coinnut

01-29-2010, 08:35 PM

Nice group of finds Leon. Looks like around 1900 and a bit before?? Couldn't find them Navy buttons in Albert's button book, but I didn't look through the whole book. Wondering if they are civilian buttons. Lots of cool finds and I would hope there are some coins to go with them finds. keep us posted on that site.

xzlr8n

01-29-2010, 09:45 PM

Looks like the V3 will find stuff, congrats Leon!!

xzlr8n

01-29-2010, 09:51 PM

Jack,

With regard to your swing speed at your coin garden, how does the 7.5 Hz and even the 10Hz filters effect your coin detection. That swing speed looks agonizingly slow but effective. At times, I have some big yards to cover and might want to do a little quicker sweep speed especially the first time I hit them.

Thanks,
Scott

CyberSage

01-29-2010, 10:59 PM

The ground Mineralization, especially when it is high plays a key roll in your filter settings. If your soil is Moderate to low you can get away with running the scale with the filter settings. In my experience the 5.0 Hz Band Pass provides the the best depth in this environment. The slow swing speed goes with the territory. Along with this a recovery setting ranging from 90 to 110 is a must. Don't be in a hurry. If you have a large yard to cover then spend more time there. If your time is limited hit the obvious areas first, along sidewalks, around old trees, along old clotheslines, etc. Trust me, you gain nothing by moving to fast. This is especially true if the area has been heavily hunted. You will find those deep old coins that others just whiz by. Angel is a perfect example of what is possible if you take your time and patiently grid your hunting areas. Three years ago I was digging clad and pulling rings and doing just great, but not finding any old coins. I started following the stories posted by Angel on various forums. He always found great old coins. I noticed all of his hunts had one thing in common. They were relaxed and methodical. Now in combination with newer technology such as the V3 and the E-Trac, this slow hunting style is key in taking the fullest advantage of all it has to offer. If you move fast, you will loose depth and the ability to pick out those old coins that are in close proximity to deep iron and other trash items. Higher filter settings give more accurate results on the analyze screen and are suited for faster swing speeds. Ideal for jewelry and targets down to 4 or 5 inches. I use a much faster pace with the Bigfoot coil on the v3 and typically a default factory setting on the Filter. I remember one hunt in particular that I pulled a lot of old coins in a 20 foot area on a parkway strip. I noticed there had been another detectorist before me. They had cut 3 or 4 plugs and no doubt found some targets. I spent about an hour and a half in that area. This was my take in the same area...

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o187/CyberSageBH3300/group1-2.jpg

Slow and steady will almost always produce more old coins.

I guess I never felt that moving at a snails speed and enjoying the outdoors and finding nice old coins was agonizing. ;) Hope this helps you understand why so slow.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Leon

01-30-2010, 12:31 AM

I agree with your staements .....I have found that with the V.... the more you slw down with it the better you do.....My plan for the site I've been hitting is to clear as much surface to 4 or 5 in. as possible....and then slow down and start picking only the deep targets with hopes of old silver. :rolleyes: :cheesysmile:

CyberSage

01-30-2010, 09:46 AM

That really does look like a great location Leon. Thanks for taking the time to share the results with us here on the forum. One of these days I hope to get a chance to hunt a cellar hole.

Jack

xzlr8n

01-30-2010, 03:12 PM

I agree with you guys also on a slow sweep speed. I previously thought my 3-4 sec sweep was good, and it did get me some great finds with my DFX, but I'm now thinking 5-6 sec sweep speed might be better yet. I'll really have to discipline myself to keep it SLOWWWW :grin:.

coinnut

01-30-2010, 06:29 PM

I agree with you guys also on a slow sweep spee. I previously thought my 3-4 sec sweep was good, and it did get me some great finds with my DFX, but I'm now thinking 5-6 sec sweep speed might be better yet. I'll really have to discipline myself to keep it SLOWWWW :grin:.

Hey, I have the DFX and I noticed that if you go too slow with it you lose the target. Just try it when you find a target, but before you dig it, slow down your sweeps and see when it disappears. Just swing a bit faster than that and you will have the proper swing speed for those particular settings.

ArmyVetPaul

01-30-2010, 10:05 PM

Jack, Thanks for the awesome videos!!! I am so glad as a newbee to MD that I found American Detectorist and even more excited to have someone like Jack here as well with his knowledge and experience. What makes Jack such a great person is his willingness to share the knowledge with everyone. Thanks again Jack

CyberSage

01-30-2010, 10:44 PM

Your very kind pgwillin. Thank you for such a nice compliment. The learning experience of this forum depends on everyone sharing their discoveries and asking questions. I share what I have learned with the understanding that it is only my perception, and may not be applicable to everyone who swings a V3. There is always room for growth. I enjoy the hobby and the people who I come into contact with who are just as passionate about finding those old coins. Thanks again.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

xzlr8n

01-31-2010, 08:19 PM

Jack,

I tried the V3 for about an hour today at my neighbors farm house trying different filters, testing the frequency, and using the 950 concentric. Nothing was detected with a resounding coin signal, couldn't dig as the ground is still frozen soild. Just having fun with the machine and learning.

Question for you: I'm still getting those -95, -94, +95 iron hits. While hitting these signals regulary it occured to me that maybe I should reject the -95, -94 VDI's in Discrimination. Reason for this is, I'm thinking the Wrap settings should still help the V3 correlate and normalize the 22.5 frequency to give me signal responses for coins and such, but still ignore the iron reponses in the negative range. I'm finding it a little distracting rechecking and ascertaining that those high beeps are junk, which all of them turned out to be. The graph was splattered or spiked with red, no 2.5 hz green, and spotty 7.5 Hz green and red signals in there. Wondering what you think?? Sidenote: Although I know the V3 is a different animal I have never found a good target above +92 VDI with either my DFX or MXT (the single one I did find at 92 VDI was with my DFX and was a '42 Walker @ 2-3) .

Thanks,
Scott

CyberSage

02-02-2010, 07:58 AM

Scott,
I would suspect being a farm there would be a great deal of trash around. You may just be dealing with this. A smaller DD coil will probably do better for you in this environment. I don't have a lot of experience with hunting farms, so I don't know how much help I can be on this subject. Lower filter settings have a tendency to be noisy and require slower coil movement. Make sure your swing speed matches your filter settings.

Jack

xzlr8n

02-02-2010, 07:33 PM

Jack,

Thanks for the feedback.. I'll keep tweaking around with stuff in your correlate program, but it is a difficult site because of all the iron. I tried the Hi-Pro and Mixed-Mode Pro programs, with the Mixed-Mode Pro showing a lot of iron junk targets. This was an interesting program and seems to be one I'll explore more.

One thing I have learned is that my machine is functioning properly and I won't be sending it back to White's anytime soon. I'm really glad you have gotten the D2 to work too, again reaffirming the V3's engineering is good. Unlocking the V3's full potential should prove to be an interesting road!!

Scott

CyberSage

02-08-2010, 08:01 PM

My last hunt at the &quot:daydream:ld Main site turned out to be a good one. See:http://www.americandetectorist.com/forum/index.php?topic=827.0 It was the maiden voyage of a new concept in discrimination settings on the V3. I had read some brief mentions of this technique on treasurenet, but could not find any additional follow up on the subject matter. I found it intriguing so I applied it to my Correlate program that seems to always be in beta stages as far as I am concerned. lol So anyway, the basis of this discrimination setting is to accept everything. You heard right...Except Everything! I went right down the line and set every last VDI to ACCEPT. The key to making this work without sending you into madness from all the noise is to use the CUSTOM TONE settings. Simply change all the VDI ranges you do not want to hear to a setting of 0. This setting turns the audio response off. So once again we are discriminating out targets without using the discrimination feature. The theory here is that this will speed up the response time in radically changing VDI response such as a non desirable target in close proximity to a good target. Combined with the Correlate Mode and Span Limit setting this will give you a very tight level of discrimination without the use of the Discrimination schema at all. This is all theory of course, but it works great. For the first time I felt as attached to the V3 as I used to with the DFX. I am very anxious to get over my test garden in the park where I have deeper targets buried. I might also make note of the fact that the coil I am using is the D2 coil. I am not getting the Wrap effect that I did with my first two D2 coils that were bad. I turned off the audio response from +95, -95, and -94 and the hunt was as quiet as ever. I did have the Correlate wrap adjustment set to -94 though. This may not be necessary. Only testing over deeper targets will bring this to light. Just thought I would share this info.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

yazoo

02-08-2010, 08:52 PM

I am using this same sorta set up but in single freq. of 2.5 .I have about 5 tone blocks I use.I have been using it for quite some time now with pretty good results. Sure is quiet running wide open.Just needing more time in field with it.I am thinking it will be great.Cant wait to try my old 10x14 excelerator at my old ball field that has produced some very deep silver. On hold for now with weather and heart problems.May be derailed for a few months if it goes to open heart surgery.Will know more in a day or so . Good Luck to all. Yazoo

coinnut

02-08-2010, 08:52 PM

Wow, I like that concept a lot :yes: All targets detected always makes for a better response. Using the tones to 0 is a great concept. I would have turned all disc items to a low tone (grunt if possible), but your idea opens up a lot of possibilities. Looking forward to seeing your programs develope. thumbsup01

xzlr8n

02-08-2010, 11:04 PM

Jack,

I'm really liking the logic of this updated program. This might be the ticket for my iron infested farm yard, I'll have to test it out and let you know how it works. Interesting idea on speeding up the V3 response time by taking the disc processing out of the loop. I wonder what White's engineers would say about the processing speed of the V3, is the Disc progamming like a restricter plate on a NASCAR engine:huh:

Thanks for sharing,
Scott

CyberSage

02-08-2010, 11:22 PM

Yazoo, I am very interested in your variations in single frequency. Please keep us up to date on your findings. I think the 2.5 kHz mode offers the ultimate in depth over all. If we could learn to tame the beast this would be the definitive mode to hunt in.

Scott,
This runs a lot quieter than the version I used with the SEF coil. Please let us know how this behaves for you at the farm location. I just know you will pull some Silver out of there yet! It just snowed again here so it will be awhile before I can get to those deep targets in the park test garden. Looking forward to your results.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Schrecky

02-10-2010, 07:59 PM

Jack, I like your idea. Let me know how it is working out for you. I won't be seeing bare, unfrozen ground for another 6 or 8 weeks anyways.

ArmyVetPaul

02-11-2010, 02:39 AM

Lope_along

02-12-2010, 06:37 PM

These are really exciting posts you guys are making.
Like Schrecky, I am also the Prisoner of Punxsutawney Phil
and He has put about 26+ inches of snow betwixt me and my dreams.
<sigh>

Keep swinging Guys,

Lope_Along

CyberSage

02-12-2010, 09:33 PM

CyberSage

02-12-2010, 09:34 PM

ArmyVetPaul

02-13-2010, 10:26 AM

Hey Paul!

I will get this info posted for you this weekend. I am really pretty excited over not using the discrimination logic on the V3 at all and still have the ability to be very precise with target information. We are suppossed to get to 50 degrees by Sunday. YIPPEEE!!!

Thanks Jack.....

Can't wait to see the current programs you are using, as far as the weather here goes, I am looking at 3 feet of snow outside the window here in Maryland....:(

CyberSage

02-18-2010, 07:29 PM

Here is another variation of the Correlate program. This time designed to work with the stock D2 coil. This program does not use any discrimination what so ever. Instead, the custom tone settings keep the undesirable targets quiet. The idea is that even with slow recovery time near by bad targets will have less masking effect on a near by good target. This is the program I used on my last hunt when finding the Seated Liberty Dime.

Choose the Coin & Jewelry from the presets and make the following changes...

Discrimination
Accept (-95 to +95)
Reject (nothing)

Notes: Set your accept range to include all numbers

Sensitivity
Rx Gain (9-10)
Discrimination (92-93)
All Metal (78)

Notes: Set your sensitivity to where your detector is stable. Do not sacrifice Discrimination sensitivity for Rx Gain. Keep the Discrimination sensitivity as high as possible. To much RX Gain will cause more problems with deep iron sounding like good targets.

Ground Tracking
Speed (15)

Frequency
Correlate (ON)
Span (25)
Wrap (-94)

Filter & Speed
Ground Filter (5Hz Band Pass)
Recovery Delay (115)

Audio
Tone ID (ON)
Modulation (OFF)

Set your Tone ID Mode to Custom and make the following changes...

-95 to -1 = 0 and set +95 to 0 as well

Notes: Essentially what is happening here is we are using the 0 setting to make non desirable targets quiet and give no audio response. You can set any VDI range to 0 to not hear a response.

Swing that coil slow and in about 4 foot passes. Make a pass in both directions over the same ground before overlapping for your next swing. Keep that coil on or slightly off the surface
Hope this helps you out.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

Lowjiber

02-18-2010, 08:35 PM

Cool approach to the correlate programs, Jack!!!

The Book of Jack just got bigger. ;)

Fishnmaine

02-19-2010, 08:11 PM

Hi Jack, which Correlate program settings would you change with the stock 950 coil? Not sure if you tested this coil or not.....

CyberSage

02-19-2010, 10:25 PM

Hi Jack, which Correlate program settings would you change with the stock 950 coil? Not sure if you tested this coil or not.....

Hey Fishnmaine,

The stock coil for the V3 is the D2. The 950 was stock on the MXT and DFX. If it is nulled (V-Rated) it will work just fine with this program. If it is not V-Rated then it will have a tendency to wrap on you. I would suggest setting the custom Tone for +95 to normal (255) and adjusting the tones for -95 and -94 to 254 and 253 respectively. If your mineralization is high then just set the +95 Tone to 255. Just a reminder, you have to move that coil very slow or you will get a lot of noise with the low filter setting. If you want to swing faster then yo can adjust your filter up a bit, but you will loose depth.

Keep swing'in
Jack

Fishnmaine

02-20-2010, 08:38 AM

I guess I should of worded it different. :crazy:....I know the D2 is the stock coil...I have a v rated 950 coil for the V3.....What ever you have set up for the D2 coil can we use the same settings for the first program you set up or the second......

yazoo

02-20-2010, 09:49 AM

Not to butt in but I look at it as most all coils use about the same settings maybe a tweek to the RX,Disc or All metal And some to the recovery for how fast you move your coil relative to coil size. Yazoo

,

CyberSage

02-20-2010, 10:46 AM

Yazoo has pretty much summed it up. You can get away with faster recovery times with DD coils in general. Since a DD coil field lays down a smaller footprint in the ground you can kick up sensitivities as well.

xzlr8n

02-20-2010, 02:54 PM

Jack and all,

Wondering if anyone has impressions using the Mixed Mode Pro. I used it once briefly and found it very informative of what was beneath the coil. I didn't have many good targets in the high VDI range but could identify different compostition targets easily. Not sure on depth but I think it should detect pretty deep if you pay attention to all the beeps.

By the way, I think Jack's new correlate program is going to be very good at hitting all targets underneath the coil too. I cannot wait for WINTER to be over :bangahead01: to test all this stuff.

Scott

Schrecky

02-23-2010, 08:34 PM

Jack, On your last posting of your Coorelate program:

1. Are you still setting LockTrack to ON?
2. Are you using the Coin & Jewelry settings of Bottle Cap Reject & Hot Rock = OFF?
3. In one of your earlier posts of this program you were using 2.5khz. Why did you switch to Correlate on this listing?

Thanks
Dan

CyberSage

02-23-2010, 09:24 PM

Hey Dan!

I go back and forth on the LockTrack. If things are quiet I turn it off. Bottle Cap and Hot Rock are turned off. I have always preferred the Correlate mode. I use the 2.5kHz with the Super12 coil a lot. I feel it kind of helps get down deeper in my soil. If there is not a lot of trash and deep iron I think the 2.5kHz gets deeper and makes those deep nickels pop. With the D2 coil VDI readings are normal and to be honest I have not used the 2.5 yet with this coil.

Jack

pointer80

02-24-2010, 04:58 AM

Schrecky

02-24-2010, 06:34 AM

Thanks Jack, Not that I can get out yet, still way to much snow here but I'm getting eager to hunt and set up your program yesterday. Thanks for sharing your progress with the V3.

yazoo

02-24-2010, 07:53 AM

This is what I did to make mine fit and be able to change the batteries easy.I split the cover on to the end and put a new hole in the bottom for the coil cable. It works great. Is easy to do wit a good pair of scissors. Good Luck .Yazoo

coinnut

02-24-2010, 08:30 AM

hey all, just wondering do they make a box cover for the v3 that you can excess the battery without taking the cover off? The one that came with my v3 you have to take the cover all the way off to get to the battery. Is there a better unit out there?

Del bought a cover for his DFX from England. Maybe they make one for the V3? I think someone posted a link before to them. Try searching through some old posts for that link.

yazoo

02-24-2010, 06:31 PM

Forgot to say it but the end of my box cover does wrap over to the velcro and cover up the battery end of the detector. Yazoo

CyberSage

02-24-2010, 06:39 PM

The box on the V3 and the DFX are identical. Anything that works for the DFX will work on the V3. Cover comes off really easy. Not sure I have ever had to change a battery during the coarse of a days hunt. Kind of a non issue for me. I use a cover in bad weather only, but I can see the advantage at the end of the day if you like to use a cover all the time. I would cut away the area on a standard cover enough to let the battery slide out and then take it to a local seamstress to sew it partially back on and fix Velcro in place. Just a thought.

Jack

texasboy112

03-09-2010, 02:59 PM

As some of you may know, Iâ€™m new to this incredible hobby. My wife and I are totally committed to this for life; we love it so much. We started out with an ACE 250 (for my wife), and a Minelab X-Terra 505 for me. I just got a Spectra V3 a few days ago; itâ€™s unbelievable. I wanted to thank all of you for all of your support, and friendly advice since Iâ€™ve been here. Iâ€™ll continue to work, read and learn from this great forum.

First of all, John (Lowjiber) thank you for all of the help youâ€™ve given me, and the kindness youâ€™ve shown me; Iâ€™ll not forget that. Iâ€™d never have gotten this far (novice or not) without you; your one in a million my friend. Your sage knowledge always amazes me in the realm of Detecting, and about life in general.

John told me about all of the extremely knowledge people on this forum, and that I should always follow the writings of Jack (Cybersage); I can see why. Jack youâ€™re such an intricate part of this forum (as so many of you are), your vast knowledge of Metal Detecting, and the V3 is incredible. Iâ€™ve read so many entries, from all of you, which has enabled me to realize that without this forum, and all of you on it, Iâ€™d be lost. Again, thanks to everyone here for all of your help and insight. Itâ€™s my pleasure to continue to deal with you all.

Roland

Tat2demon

03-11-2010, 06:53 AM

Del bought a cover for his DFX from England. Maybe they make one for the V3? I think someone posted a link before to them. Try searching through some old posts for that link.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINELAB-FISHER-TESORO-WHITES-UltraTough-Detector-Covers_W0QQitemZ140388841594QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ Gadgets?hash=item20afd3b87a

Looks like they recently added a version for the V3 with a new flap on the back for battery access without having to take the entire cover off.

mrlocksmith

04-03-2010, 10:35 AM

Thanks for putting the book of Jack together. I found the info about the two ground probes very useful especially when using the ground probe to tell you what type of soil you are detecting.

Before that I had the V3 configured for the wrong type of soil and was only getting in the 6 range. Now with the probe info I have finally started finding stuff at the 9-10 range using the Eclipse 6x10 DD.

Later

Mark

xzlr8n

04-05-2010, 09:16 PM

I combined Yazoo's and Jack's program today. Utilized some tones in the iron range instead of zero, and I also added some tone blocks in the 0-49 VDI range. And I obviously added the correlate fequency choice. I think I'm liking it!! I'll have to test drive it some more before I get some positive notes on it. I did pick up a quarter and two pennies with my 4x6 DD, that rang out loud and clear. The junk signals weren't bothersome with the custom tone settings. This was a trashy area and was detecting better than I have with other programs, the coins really jumped out. I'll have to test the D2, to make sure the 4x6 wasn't the difference.

One note when changing the tone settings in the audio setup: once you change a setting you can press and hold enter then push the up or down key to carry that setting for the next VDI setting, on and on until you stop or need to change the audio response #. Some of you guys probably knew this and I had a feeling there was better way to change the audio response instead of individually for 200 VDI #'s. I figured this out after 75 individual changes rofl rofl .

pointer80

04-08-2010, 10:34 AM

Hi all, I see alot of threads on hear about sweep speed and picking the filter for your ground condition and sweep speed. My question is what would be considered a slow, medium or fast sweep speed as far as distance of sweep compared to seconds it takes to complete your sweep. Thank you

Fire Fighter 43

04-08-2010, 10:11 PM

Congrats on a Nice ring! Dont make excusses for your finds, they are all good finds no matter what the value.
O by the way Ill take a Leinenkugels Sunset Wheat Its a beer from my home town, Chippewa Falls WI

texasboy112

04-12-2010, 10:27 PM

Yazoo,

Thanks again for your super program; it really helps with showing me what's there. As someone at my level it's a blessing. I went out today (with your program) and found 34 coins, a set of keys, an older type of key, a live 38 Special round, and my 1st Relic-Type find, a USN Pin.

Roland

coinnut

04-13-2010, 11:22 AM

Cool pin!! Love them relics. Don't like the live round though lol The key is different too. It is great of Yazoo, Jack, John and others for sharing there programs here. Anyone of them could have kept their secrets, but they didn't. Thanks all. thumbsup01

yazoo

04-13-2010, 01:56 PM

That's what its about ain't it,doing a lil sharing and having fun.Happy Hunting Yazoo

yazoo

04-27-2010, 01:07 PM

Hey T.D. you might wanna try it once for the 18-21 VDI doesnt have all that many tabs in it.Might work better than you thought . Yazoo

Lope_along

04-27-2010, 06:38 PM

Why not?

THX.!

xzlr8n

04-27-2010, 09:34 PM

Questions for anyone:

1. When I try to zero my ground probe from the Live Controls in Ground tracking I do not get a stable Phase reading. I am holding the coil in the air all the while I'm doing this. With time it hovers near -70, but tends to fluctuate. Is this normal.

2. I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to get my V3 to show a solid response for a target past 6. In my test spot I have a clad dime and a clad quarter buried at 6-8. No matter what I change, what program I use, I either get no signal, a spotty signal, a wrong VDI reading, fluctuating VDI readings, spectragraph littered with green bars, two different VDI readings depending on what 90 degree angle I come at it, ect... I have changed the filter settings, disc sensitivity, RX gain settings, frequency offset, recovery delay - to no avail. The responses seem so random that I find it hard to key in on signal that tells me I have definite deep good target. I have had the same kinds of responses out on hunts, never able to get a solid reading on a target and blow it off as interference, nearby iron, or plain machine falsing :bangahead01:. I'm afraid I'm missing some deep good targets all the time. Is anyone else experiencing this?? Better yet has anyone figured this problem out or know what to look for on the display?? Do I need to send the darn thing back to White's?? My machine seems to be OK at the 3-4 range - so was my Prizm V :mad:

Kind of frustrated!!

BHNugget

04-27-2010, 10:48 PM

After zeroing your ground probe and lowering your coil to the ground your getting -70? If so, that sounds way off.

xzlr8n

04-27-2010, 11:11 PM

After zeroing your ground probe and lowering your coil to the ground your getting -70? If so, that sounds way off.
BHNugget: When I lower the coil to the ground it goes to -84 to -83. I'm wondering if when you zero the coil in the air (while it is in the air) what should the phase reading be or shouldn't I be worrying about it. Is zeroing the ground probe (coil) a critical maneuver:huh: Seems like the the Ground Balancing procedure accomplishes the same thing??

Lowjiber

04-28-2010, 05:21 AM

xzlr8n...

Is your depth problem with only one coil? Perhaps the 10D2?

I've had two of those loops go bad and instability and lack of depth are two of the major factors.

randy

04-28-2010, 05:24 AM

2. I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to get my V3 to show a solid response for a target past 6. In my test spot I have a clad dime and a clad quarter buried at 6-8. No matter what I change, what program I use, I either get no signal, a spotty signal, a wrong VDI reading, fluctuating VDI readings, spectragraph littered with green bars, two different VDI readings depending on what 90 degree angle I come at it, ect... I have changed the filter settings, disc sensitivity, RX gain settings, frequency offset, recovery delay - to no avail. The responses seem so random that I find it hard to key in on signal that tells me I have definite deep good target. I have had the same kinds of responses out on hunts, never able to get a solid reading on a target and blow it off as interference, nearby iron, or plain machine falsing :bangahead01:. I'm afraid I'm missing some deep good targets all the time. Is anyone else experiencing this??

Yeah, I experience this. It is sort of disappointing, but here is what I do.

When I get one of these, I look for the following: a) is it below 5 inches? b) is the target small? c) do I get a smattering of high conductive VDI's from 2 different directions directly over where the target pinpoints, even if I get alot of negative VDI's? d) do I get green dominant, or green and red about the same (or, if I think large coppers or IH's are in the area, red can be dominant here).

If all of that is true, I dig it, and there is a decent chance it is a silver, a copper, or a wheatie. I do dig my share of rusty nails this way tho.

I agree with you, I don't have the confidence that it locks onto deep conductive targets well, but I think it sees them well. The above seems to work ok for me, but I'm sure I'm missing stuff as well. The problem is that I can't use the single frequency mode (deep silver), because I rely heavily on the relative strengths of the three frequencies when pinpointing to try to guess if it is a high conductive target.

Hopefully someone smarter and with more experience will chime in on this.

yazoo

04-28-2010, 06:53 AM

Ok to start with, the ground probe # after zeroing does not matter in air as far as I know.The ones in ground are what you are after to tell you what type of ground you might have.This will help in what coil you might use and you tweeks that you use.I Dont think its and exact science but it helps.Now as far as target response first thing I look for is a good tone and getting it to repeat from different angles.Some times you might only wiggle your coil a few inches to get the signal. Then I pay attention to VDI# and the depth to figure if I am digging.I get a lot of square nails but that is because I just have to make sure on those targets past 8 inches or so. When not being able to pick up on your targets I would think that the recovery is off and maybe the filters,could be how fast you move your coil across a target. Best thing to do is when you get a deep target in the field is play with your settings untill you start getting the best signal.The biggest thing I have found for falsing is running to hot, this detectors programs are hot out of the box usualy turning back the disc to 80-84 helps alot the more in tune you get with your detector the higher you might crank it up, normally never past 92. Another thing I have noticed on the forums is a lot of people like the 9.5coil and say it works better in there ground,I figure that is due to the ground phase like ground in the low to upper 80's. Hope this helps. Writing is not my strong point. Good Luck H.H.Yazoo

BHNugget

04-28-2010, 08:14 AM

BHNugget: When I lower the coil to the ground it goes to -84 to -83. I'm wondering if when you zero the coil in the air (while it is in the air) what should the phase reading be or shouldn't I be worrying about it. Is zeroing the ground probe (coil) a critical maneuver:huh: Seems like the the Ground Balancing procedure accomplishes the same thing??

Zeroing the ground probe isnt a critical maneuver for detecting,just for reading the ground.With your coil in the air and with the ground probe in the screen,just hit the menu/tab button until the zero is highlighted.The reading at this point doesnt matter.When you lower your coil to the ground (just make sure its clean) it will be your ground reading.I wont go as far as to say that the -84 to -83 your getting isnt right,but the only reading like that which Ive seen so far is from a user in GA.The ones Ive seen from NY are closer to -93.
On your test coins....how long have they been in the ground? I noticed the same thing with a silver quarter I buried in my yard.Its been there for about a year and the V would NOT pick it up as a clear signal.If I was detecting and didnt know it was there,I would've passed it by.I honestly believe this is due to disturbing the ground.Even after the year,when I dug the quarter up,I could tell the ground wasnt packed like the natural ground in the rest of the yard.I also had this quarter in the 7-8 range.
In actual use the V has no problem seeing coins at that depth.Ive also come to believe that with depth,say 8+ the VDI reading will probably higher or lower than that of a shallower coin.Ive dug late 1970s pennies that VDI at +80 (they probably get that deep by falling into a crack in the ground in the summer when the ground cracks up,because I know this park hasnt had any fill put in it) and wheat pennies at 8+ that read in the high +50s to low +70s.The one thing I note about these deep coins is that they will give a repeatable signal using a wiggle with the coil.I use the loctrac exclusively trying to employ the ground balance offset to get a perfect balance.If youve never seen this done,watch the GMT video on the Whites website sometime.I think its the way to go with ground balancing the V.

xzlr8n

04-28-2010, 02:53 PM

Thanks everyone. I'll tweak some more and let you know if things get better for me.

BHNugget: I'll probe my ground a little bit more and see if that -93 range comes up. I too have had memorials come up into the 80's and a lot of the wheats and IH's IO've found so far this year have been in the 50-60's with a blip into the 70's (this clues me in that it is a wheat or IH when I got that 70 blip). Also these Wheats and IH's are more than likely red dominant in pin pointing.

Yazoo: Thanks for the tips. I just might be cranked up too high with the Disc Sens.

Lowjiber: I primarily have been using the 9.5 Concentric coil. I wonder if there is an epoxy problem with all White's V- Rated coils like Carl hinted at:huh:

Randy: Glad too hear (or should I be bummed) that you too are experiencing some of the same troubles. I think we are all White's guinnea pigs right now. Maybe the upgrade for the V3i addresses some of these issues we are experiencing?? A lot of the steps you go through to determine if there is a good deep target are the same ones I go through too. Before I dig the target up I make a guess of what it is and hope for the best. Sometimes treasure, sometimes junk, and sometimes its a deep (10+ inches) trash target (copper scrap, tin can, or a big piece of lead).

Lowjiber

04-28-2010, 05:02 PM

Lowjiber: I primarily have been using the 9.5 Concentric coil. I wonder if there is an epoxy problem with all White's V- Rated coils like Carl hinted at:huh:

There likely is a real problem with the epoxy, as Carl is a straight shooter...everytime.

However, I have a V-rated 6x9DD that I beat the heck out of hunting in the desert. It's like a Timex...keeps on ticking. I also have a V-rated 4x6DD, but don't beat it up too much. It too keeps on ticking.

I think the overall frame design (open) of the 10D2, combined with its relative thin structure, may be causing just enough flex to add to a (perhaps) weak epoxy problem.

dktucson62

05-25-2010, 09:20 AM

I to am a V3 user and am happy to see this webb site, so far every thing I'v read has sure helped me in my knowledge of this great machine. The only problem I have is the new grade to the V31, it sounds or looks like it will be a great add on, any comments on this would realy help me in my decision to have this done, thanks

M-Taliesin

06-13-2010, 08:46 AM

Howdy Jack!
I'm gonna give your correlate program a go when I get a chance to try it out.
That ain't likely to be soon if it keeps on raining around these parts!!! Nuts to
the constant rain. I thought we were supposed to be a semi-arid state! Where's
the arid already?

Anyhow, got me an invite to ride by horseback into the back country on some
private land to hunt for nuggets. Never really got the chance to try the prospecting
mode on the V3i, so any tips would be appreciated.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

CyberSage

06-13-2010, 09:25 AM

Howdy M-Taliesin!

I will try and get some details posted on the latest revision today. All this rain is for the birds! I went out for a hunt yesterday anyway. I got soaked to the bone. Still had fun. You don't see to many post on nugget shooting with the V3. I would like to hear some feedback on this as well. Plenty of placer possible areas in our country here on the front range. Anyone ever nugget shoot with their V3? Looking forward to going on a hunt with you. Talk to you soon.

Jack

johno

06-16-2010, 10:01 AM

thanks for the invite jack.. ive been here quite a few times checkin things out. and did 1 pass about 4 ft wide 40 ft long. first used to other programs and followed up with your correlate.. the area has been pounded good. found a few clad the first 2 passes then went over with yours and picked up a few more nothin real deep but couldnt believe i didnt see them on first passes. 1 signal was a nice solid 90 at 6 inces. i dug a nice plug and folded over pass coil over hole and plug there was nothin. i couldnt believe it.. i knew i had a solid 90. well i dug out some dirt put out on towel and nothin. i dug a little deeper and noticed a little pin like on the back of a medal or such. very small. then i found a gold lapel pin not very big at all. it looks like gold but who knows anyways it said cheerleader on it. and was in great shaoe other than i mustve knocked the pin off the back diggin. i was really impressed how small it was and your program found it. thanks again for the great info and invite to a great web site. good hunting

CyberSage

06-16-2010, 07:15 PM

You are quite welcome Johno! Welcome to the forum. I am glad the program is working for you. Thanks for the nice post. I look forward to hearing about your results in the future. I have been a bit inactive do to work and life in general, but I am getting hunt time on a regular basis now, and I am looking forward to sharing more information on the V3. Talk to you soon.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

tanacat

06-23-2010, 11:58 AM

Just bought a V3i a couple weeks ago and enjoying so far. I've been reading this thread (lurking) A lot of what I'm reading here on this thread goes over my head, so thus not responded. Rigorous honesty huh? lol

I'm loving the &quot:beerbuddy:ook of Jack, slowly but surely learning more and more about my wonderful machine. I get out and swing at least a couple hours a day and have been digging less and less trash each day (learning what's iron and bigger trash- that's a biggy, I love reading the graph!!!) Now if I can better learn the can slaw, pop tabs and crushed bottle caps! Had been trying to use Jack's tips in this arena, on the diff between 2.5k and 22.5k for bottle caps, but then noticed he says this is with DD coil. I only have D2 coil so far, am buying a 6 DD coil next week.

Anyway, I guess no questions yet- just wanted to say hi and yes I'm watching :eyebrow:

yazoo

06-23-2010, 12:58 PM

Tana Your D2 coil is a DD Coil. The difference of the 2.5 and 22.5 will be when you pull the trigger as to what shows dominate,The green for a coin ,blue gold or trash. By a 6 inch coil I hope you're getting the Whites 5.3 it is concentric but will be very valuable at this time for your hunting and it is 6 inch.It also is capable of good depth. I just wish it was cooler so I can hunt a little. Yazoo

Lowjiber

06-23-2010, 01:15 PM

Tana...After you get pretty comfortable with the factory programs, try putting Yazoo's program to work. It has quickly become one of my favorites, especially in the minerialized soil around here.

CyberSage

06-23-2010, 02:21 PM

I have to agree on Yazoo's program. I loaded it up and really like it. This is a great program to start with. I am using it with my 1:blackeye:12 SEF right now.

Lowjiber

06-25-2010, 06:35 AM

Fans and followers of Jack's correlate program can see the latest version and Jack's comments on a new thread...

http://www.americandetectorist.com/forum/index.php?topic=1860.0

There's some good new dialogue there.

(The Book of Jack has been updated too.)

CyberSage

08-17-2010, 09:04 PM

The New D2 coil is working great. I have started doing some comparisons with my V-Rated 6X9 Eclipse coil. I have to admit this coil is very stable, even in high EMI situations. I can get the coil to wrap and break up on a Wheat penny at 8 inches. If I include -95 and -94 and adjust the tones it will hit very nicely, but then becomes noisy to hunt with. This is very reminiscent of the 1:blackeye:12 SEF coil. At 9 inches it will also wrap and break up the target response. The D2 is rock solid at these depths. I am have a trashy spot in the park that I will try and hunt this weekend with the 6X9. Should be interesting.

Jack

ClutchCargo

10-17-2010, 08:38 AM

Hello, new to this forum.Looks very informative. I was thinking of trying Jack's Correlate program. Can someone tell me how to get to the Custom Tone ID mode on the V3? Thanks....Clutch Cargo

CyberSage

10-17-2010, 10:52 AM

Press Menu Twice â€œin quick successionâ€ ARROW down to Expert Menu, and press ENTER.

ARROW down to Audio, and press ENTER

ARROW down to Tone I.D. Mode, and press ENTER

ARROW down to Custom, and press ENTER

Depending on what version of the manual you have it should be on Page 35 or 49.

Jack

RaZR

01-03-2011, 08:40 PM

Hello everyone!I have a couple ?'s about V3 i figure some of you can help with.
1.) How do you tell what number your V3 is? I have seen people post that theirs is #43 or #16.

2.) I got mine on E-bay and it's still version 1.1 and i'm guessing that nobody else is still running 1.1 without an update?

3.) I hear people saying that they got an upgrade and then theirs didn't work as good.
And that bothers me.

ThanX RaZR (john)

giant056

01-04-2011, 05:45 AM

I was never aware they were numbered myself, I always figured there was the Vision, V3 & V3i. Mine is a V3i but the case that came with it is marked V3, I figure its one that Whites used from their stockpile which is no problem cause it works great.

RaZR

01-04-2011, 04:37 PM

Mine is an original Vision. And i'm going to take it south with me. Then i may send it in for the upgrade.

ChrisinCT

10-06-2012, 12:58 PM