Ordinance Language *** 12/14 response update ***

[milco]

There are a number of municipalities in my area that have language similar to what I have listed below and none of them specifically speak to metal detecting. However, in reality some allow MDing and others do not, but yet they have this same type of language in their ordinances. I realize that this language helps protect the parks and give law enforcement a leg to stand on if there is a problem, but it is interesting to me how the intrepretation in practice varies from area to area. Do any of you run in to similar situations?

Quoted from one such county ordinance:

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND PARK REGULATIONS

VEGETATION AND WILDLIFE.
Picking, trampling, or otherwise unnecessarily damaging any plants, flowers, shrubs, trees, vines
or things of a similar nature growing or planted upon the premises of any park.

VANDALISM AND DISTURBANCES.
Removing or vandalizing any object of archaeological, historical interest including any man-made
article or implement originating from earlier cultures.


12/14 Update - Response from Park System

I received an email back from the park district stating that metal detecting is permitted as long as it does not result in damage to the grounds or property. However, there was one park in the district that was pointed out as off limits due to it being an archaeological site

[Epi-hunter]

There are a number of municipalities in my area that have language similar to what I have listed below and none of them specifically speak to metal detecting. However, in reality some allow MDing and others do not, but yet they have this same type of language in their ordinances. I realize that this language helps protect the parks and give law enforcement a leg to stand on if there is a problem, but it is interesting to me how the intrepretation in practice varies from area to area. Do any of you run in to similar situations?

Quoted from one such county ordinance:

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND PARK REGULATIONS

VEGETATION AND WILDLIFE.
Picking, trampling, or otherwise unnecessarily damaging any plants, flowers, shrubs, trees, vines
or things of a similar nature growing or planted upon the premises of any park.

VANDALISM AND DISTURBANCES.
Removing or vandalizing any object of archaeological, historical interest including any man-made
article or implement originating from earlier cultures.


I would say that the last statement could be pretty much directly prohibiting metal detecting. Most of the park regulations I have read aren't quite that specific.

[Jason in Enid]

I disagree. The last statement is aimed at pre-historic native cultures. Even ARPA specifically exempts coins from it's prohibition of collecting artifacts.

[Epi-hunter]

You must be a mindreader then :) as this isn't a debate. I don't see any statement about being aimed specifically at 'pre-historic native cultures' and/or exemption of coins, or anything else, from the definition of 'artifacts'.

The way it's presented, it depends on how they want to define archaeological, historical interest and earlier cultures. For example, I have seen it specifically defined to mean anything at all beyond the age of ten years. Just because the ARPA defines it one way doesn't mean everyone else does.

My point was that with such a regulation in place, I would personally feel uncomfortable being caught detecting in such an area and having to later justify my interpretation of that regulation as to not include that activity. I would first want to clarify exactly what it means.

Onward! :)

[BlackZ51Vett]

I agree with Epi....I would say the intention of that wording in an ordinance would be placed there to stop metal detecting. I would ask some more questions to those in the know before swinging my coil.

[coinnut]

It definitely sounds like it was meant to be vague. Although I believe it was passed off as keeping our native American culture from being looted, it is worded so that anyone in a position of authority can stop you from detecting. The phrases that bother me are the ones that say: historical interest, and including any man made articles or implements originating from earlier cultures Now if the full version details this to be more on the Native American side and not articles from the 1800's and up, then we could still detect. But I think someone who was against detecting would use this to their advantage and just find another way to kick you off, like damage to public grounds or similar. It would be wise to carry the full version of the law in your pocket so that you could at least show that you cared enough to read the rules. Also showing some rusted iron and glass that you picked up along with proper digging techniques may get you to stay detecting there. Always be polite and if it's still NO, then leave. You can always find out who is above them or appoints them and try and gain permission that way.

[milco]

It definitely sounds like it was meant to be vague.

I believe these ordinances are absolutely intended to be vague and enforceable as those in authority see fit. I am not saying I agree or disagree with that, just simply wanted to throw this out there and see what other's experiences were.

[milco]

You must be a mindreader then :) as this isn't a debate. .........
My point was that with such a regulation in place, I would personally feel uncomfortable being caught detecting in such an area.

While I suspect the primary intention of the language is to protect native american artifacts, I agree and won't be hunting these parks until I get clarification. These are county parks and detecting in an area where you are unsure and looking over your shoulder is not worth it or enjoyable to me when there are so many other places to go.

[milco]

The last statement is aimed at pre-historic native cultures.

I agree that this is the intent but not going to hunt in these county parks until I get a green light.

[Jason in Enid]

You must be a mindreader then :) as this isn't a debate.

Excuse me? I thought we were all here to input our own views and intrepretations to topics.

[Epi-hunter]

Excuse me? I thought we were all here to input our own views and intrepretations to topics.


No excuses needed, Jason. My only point was that the original intent of the thread (milco) was not to start a debate on what the wording meant but rather to point out that it was intentionally vague, which it is. As others have pointed out, it can be interpreted in several different ways so no one really knows the exact intent. :)

[Cheap Thrills]

The wording on the sign milco posted would be enough to keep me from detecting there . I detect for fun and relaxation
and I would not feel relaxed in that situation .If I saw they were doing a scrape or turning over some dirt at a location posted in that way I would inquire if I could have a shot at it ( I have had some success doing this ).

[coinnut]

I would ask some more questions to those in the know before swinging my coil.


It's funny, sometimes I find the way the question is posed can get you a Yes rather than a No. If you ask can I metal detect here?......you may get a no, but if you say you don't mind if I metal detect here, do you?...you may get a yes. It's always better to talk with the person in charge and get some conversation going before asking. Start off by saying...do they find a lot of Native American points here?? If they say Yes, then you can say &quot:daydream:h, so that sign is for cultural history, and medal detecting is still OK then?. Just a couple of thoughts on asking permission.

[tanacat]

I remember discussing this in another thread about items 100 yrs or older makes it pre-historic, like an antique? I think that was it... :confused: Anyone remember that?

Anyway, like Epi said, I just wouldn't want to chance it, rules worded like that! And I don't think any of us can deny that ANYTHING we dig up would not be of historical interest to us... like the dates of old dog rabies tags lol Like most of you, I've got quite a collection of them! rofl

[Dick Stout]

As someone said above, wording was meant to be vague, and if it were me I would seek out a local official or policeman and ask whether it was okay, being sure to specifiy you will not do any damage. That way you can always say you asked first. JMO.

[channelmaniac]

Must be nice to be able to detect. ;)

In Texas it's a Class A Misdemenor to metal detect in a state park.

Most City/County parks are OK (I think Austin may be off limits... Arlington requires a permit) and Corps of Engineer properties are OK - but not state run parks on Corps property.