Opinions would be welcomed

[Epi-hunter]

I had a situation come up this evening with my daughter which is really bothering me. Any input/advice would be great. I am divorced from her dad, so it's just me with this, and no one to run these things by.

She is 8, in 3rd grade. When she came home from school tonight she was crying and she has been extremely upset since. She gave me a note from her teacher, which said simply Kali was caught cheating on a math test and I am apparently supposed to sign and return it tomorrow.

Problem is, she did not cheat on any test, it was an accusation made by a classmate that she was using a calculator on the test. When they searched her they found no calculator (she doesn't own a calculator). Still, they proceeded to accuse her. She is a good girl... honest, straight A student.

Long story short, I sent a very strongly worded email to her teacher saying that I was not about to sign any statement that my daughter cheated unless they had some real proof other than the words of another 8 year old child. There's a reason why hearsay isn't allowed in a court of law.

The response I received was that they 'cannot ignore such accusations of cheating' whatever the source and that it had to be addressed. So they punished her... this was today before I even HEARD about it... with detention.

She is devastated. Am I wrong to think this is ridiculous? I am going to push this to the school board level and then whatever level after that which is necessary. Do they have no idea what kind of damage it does to accuse someone --- especially a CHILD --- of doing something that he/she did not do? What does that teach them? What does it do to their confidence, to their self-esteem? Why would adults, supposedly teachers/mentors, do this to a child?

[Epi-hunter]

This is her :)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc224/epi-hunter/004-1-1-1.jpg

She loves the DFX.

[MNDigger]

Wow Ang that is crazy stuff! It is one thing to be accused of doing something but it is another to punish her before you even knew about it and could address the situation! I would have wanted to know all the details before they went ahead and gave my child detention over it. I guess I don't know the details of the what happened but if they are just going by what another 8 year old said without any kind of proof that is pretty poor. Maybe that child did not like her and just said it to get her in trouble! :rolleyes: I would definately fight it and hopefully get some answers to how they conduct business at that school! :beatdown:

[RWJR13]

Hey EPI....I would be as P.O.'d as you are.. >:\..I have two boy's in 1st & 2nd. If there is no proof and if she is that upset then she was not cheating...They really have their priorities wrong at that school.....There has to be something else going on.......I would go where ever it took to get an apoligy from them. I know how upset it has made your girl...I have seen my boy's get upset about one saying the other did something and he did'nt....She should not be treated that way.....You know what you have to do allready...The questions you asked are the right ones and should be more...Good Luck & God Bless You.......GIV' EM' HELL !!!! :beatdown:

[angellionel]

I definitely would be looking into it, and would be going up the ladder of authority if the decision was made solely on the words of another eight year old. There is something wrong if that is the case. It seems common sense was abandoned when the decision was made. Oh yeah, someone needs a talking to. :beatdown:

[Epi-hunter]

THANKS to all of you. That bat emoticon is coming in handy apparently :)

I thought I was losing my objectivity, but you helped me. Thank you.

[Jason in Enid]

I would be pissed beyond words. I would be talking to the school principle and the school board, and calling the local paper to have them run a story on it, or at least a letter to the editor.

[Islandhunter]

Push it to the highest level and raise hell about it. Also explain to your daughter she just got a VERY important life lesson and that is there are total jerks in this world and sometimes even authorative figures are wrong and do the wrong thing. >:\ Tell her that so long as she knows that she didn;t cheat and that you have faith in her and believe in her then that is enough. Sometimes life isn;t fair and an 8 year old should not have to learn these lessons of the unfairness of it.
And probably not the wisest and most legal solution would be my first reaction (though I really don;t advice following it.... :rolleyes: ) would be to tell her to throttle that little s.o.b. that made up this crap about her.... :beatdown:

[del]

i for one would be very upset if they accused my Daughter ( i have two) of something based on hear say from another student and new my child was innocent but i would be furious if they already punished her before they let me know or with out my consent that ( they could of called that day or gave me a letter to sign first ) it was going to happen . i would be down there to give somebody a huge piece of my mine and i wouldn't be pretty . if you think your right Angie ,do like i was brought up and fight the good fight . i hope things go well and your Daughter gets over this .

Dan

[Snowy]

I read this, shaking my head, feeling my blood boil because we've been through such situations with our daughter. We've got other issues now (long story but it made for a VERY long day yesterday... better now, but exhausted still this morning).

Our daughter came home from school one day (this happened years ago) saying she got in trouble ...
the teacher accused her of cheating, wanted to know how she cheated, and gave her an F on an algerbra test.
I asked her for the test... she showed it to me, and I checked all of her answers. Every answer was right.
I asked her what the problem was... well, she didn't show her work. I did it all in my head and they say I cheated! So I tested her with some algerbraic equations and she did them all in her head, even more advanced ones.

I talked to the teacher and the teacher said she didn't show her work.

We've been going through this kind of stuff all through Miranda's schooling. It's no wonder school is difficult for our daughter. She's got 7 more months...

We commend you for not letting it slide. Look into it. Maybe she was counting on her fingers in her lap or something and the other kid thought she was cheating. Who knows. I'm so sick of educators these days.
You've got to stick up for your kids, otherwise no one else will.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. We're rooting for you.
Prove them wrong and make them apologize to her.
Stuff like this will affect her outlook on school for the rest of her life.
She'll develop an attitude of not caring because it won't matter what she says or does.
She'll believe the school will believe whatever they want regarldess of what facts her side of the story presents.
It's not fair, and it's a poor example of education. All aspects of school teach life skills and that's a very negative lesson. Hope you can turn it into a positive for her.

[coinnut]

I would go straight to the principle's office, bypassing any chain of command. I would demand a conference with the teacher and principle - NO KIDS INVOLVED! I would demand their policy in writing. If they seem like they will not give that meeting or discuss their policies, then I would tell them the next time they see me it will be with my lawyer and a child psychologists.. I would do this in a very quiet, direct voice with full ,eye contact at all times. No shouting or attitudes. I would want them to definitely understand that is not going away. But that's me. I go full guns at them, because it seems that whoever runs our school systems these days are so screwed up. Kids getting expelled for having nail clippers, no aspirin even with note from parents, and other such events! Who ever heard of calling anyone guilty on the words of another 8 year old student! That's their policy?? Who's the idiot that figured out that was a good idea!?!?! Ridiculous!! What's wrong with this world?? :mad:

[SeabeeRon]

I think we hurt twice as bad when our kids are hurt! When you can, have a face to face with that teacher, remain calm and just lay out the facts as you shared them here.
We are behind you as always Angie!!

[marchas45]

I agree with coinnut and some others, I know you are upset as I would be too but I would be going to the school and straight to the principals office and not be sending e-mails and I know at the time you where upset. Teachers have a lot of authority these days and it is wrong and as parents and grandparents we have to stop it. Some kids are being accused of things they don't do just because teachers don't like them and other kids lie about them ( I'm not saying that in the case of your daughter) but you must do something about it especially when your child is ONLY 8 years old that may stay with her for a long time and change her outlook on learning.
I was shocked when I read your post Epi-hunter do just like coinnut said be calm and take it to the top and also try and get an apology if possible for your daughter from the teacher and the girl that accused her. Good Luck

[Epi-hunter]

Thanks for your posts everyone :) I did as you said... set up a meeting with the teacher and principal for Monday. They did not even want to meet with me because as far as they are concerned it's a 'done deal'. But they knew that I was mad lol

Expelled for having nail clippers? That's insane. Last year they told me that I needed a prescription from a physician for my child to carry sunscreen during a class trip! I couldn't believe it. And they wonder why the health care system is what it is? I AM a freaking physician, for one thing! But no, it had to be a DIFFERENT physician, not a relative of the child. :rolleyes: It just keeps getting worse and worse.

[Epi-hunter]

Good point... I AM going to make them apologize to her.

[Krom]

I can feel your pain, Angie.
As Donna mentioned... we've been through it all.
Back when I was in school, the teachers would pawn off thier job to the most able person in the class, and hit the teacher's lounge for a smoke... and then some.
When these teachers told us that Mandy was diagnosed with HD... whatever it's called, I was furious.
I was ready to take 'em all out when I found out that they accidently doubled her Ridelyn (sp.) dosesge, that they had (unnessarily) convinced us to put her on... which lasted up until we realized that they were shammin' (she was on that crap for a week).
There's no such thing as a caring teacher anymore. They're ALL in it for the money (and they have the BEST retirement plan that exist, now-as-days).
CRAP on them! Watch what happens to your kids... CLOSELY... when it comes to their learning/teaching... watch 'em CLOSE!
It's all political... believe me!

[Islandhunter]

Joe...Ritalin is WAAAAAAY over prescribed...the teachers want the kids on it because they don;t wanna deal with anyone that is anything more than a zombie. My son was diagnosed with ADHD at 3 and the doctor and CDS counselor insisted he be put on it. My blew my stack and then I researched more on it and then demanded and got a meeting with CDS (doctor refused to attend) and the school with teachers and principal there. I calmy (took a MAJOR) effort told them under NO circumstances would I put my 3 year old on that crap and then backed the counselor specialist into a corner and let her hang herself, Long story short...I reacted, researched and then refused to let them get their way and bottom line is my son is not on that crap and the school is dealing with it. Worst of all is that what they were using for his symptoms are what I call being jsut a typical little boy. Best thing though is now the school and principal know I am gonna hold my ground, fight and that if they are gonna do anything then they BETTER have a damn good reason for doing so for they know I am gonna be right in their face if need be.

Angie...I am sure your school is the same so don;t let them think that they can b.s. you with their crap and make it clear to them that you are not gonna be a parent that is gonna jsut accept what they say at face value without a fight...research some before your meeting and find out EXACTLY what school policy is and then standard educational policy of your State, and hang em with their actions if they strayed even a little bit from either.

[Islandhunter]

I was ready to take 'em all out when I found out that they accidently doubled her Ridelyn (sp.) dosesge, that they had (unnessarily) convinced us to put her on... which lasted up until we realized thet they were shammin' (she was on that crap for a week).


Joe....you could have OWNED them over that....under NO circumstances can any dosage change be made without your knowledge and consent. Do otherwise is a MAJOR vioation of protocol and doing so without your knowledge and consent is also illegal and if pushed cause not only for a lawsuit but loss of license for all involved. Even if by accident, that action is dealt with by the state with severe and immediate discliplinary action. I dealt with the state licensing and discilpline board when I was an EMT and trust me....they are not people you wanna mess with for they do take their job very seriously and don;t hesitate to act.

[marchas45]

How did your meeting go Angie just wondering? no need to reply if out of order. thumbsup01

[Epi-hunter]

How did your meeting go Angie just wondering? no need to reply if out of order. thumbsup01


It got rescheduled, on their end :rolleyes: I know I'm going to blow up when in there, and I'm sure her dad will blow up. They are just trying to shove this under the rug.

The worst part is, I think I'm going to be forced to send her to another school.

[Islandhunter]

It got rescheduled, on their end :rolleyes: I know I'm going to blow up when in there, and I'm sure her dad will blow up. They are just trying to shove this under the rug.

The worst part is, I think I'm going to be forced to send her to another school.


Typical tactics when they know they are in the wrong and know you aren;t gonna just roll over and forget it....reschedule and reschedule till you hopefully give up. Know anyone on the school board? If you haven;t already you may wanna contact one of the board members and request a meeting with them as well. Also starting a written grievance and getting as many parents signatures on it to present to both the school and the board would be a plus as well...they REALLY fear anger in numbers... ;)

[marchas45]

It got rescheduled, on their end :rolleyes: I know I'm going to blow up when in there, and I'm sure her dad will blow up. They are just trying to shove this under the rug.

The worst part is, I think I'm going to be forced to send her to another school.


Bummer, Bummer, Bummer, typical of the system. Stick with it Angie and remember your daughter has met and required friends at that school. The teacher should go not the child. I'll be praying for you.

[Epi-hunter]

Thanks guys :) I am just so tired of fighting everything; it just seems like that's all my life has been during the last two years. But it has to be done.

[Jack Flynn]

Well I'm not new to this kind of accusation garbage from teachers, just the several we had were of a different nature. I would push for an apology and threaten a lawyer. That is about all some of these idiots understand. Trust me I am as far from a I'm gonna get a lawyer kind of person as you can be. But, the mentality of some of the idiots out there is just ridiculous. Our problems were, little whiney kids would twist my daughters arms and push her down and she would do nothing but feel bad. When she would defend herself, she would get in trouble. When I had seen enough we made sure our babygirl would really know how to defend herself. In other words if you are gonna be blamed for something in our case, why the heck just not make sure you did something worthwhile. We showed her how to really protect herself. After a few kicked between the legs, or being thrown to the ground real hard, the other kids decided watch out for my babygirl. In my day we would have whipped their tails really bad after class. Anyway, get an apology or threaten them. Sorry for the displeasure your babygirl has had to endure. I really think a lot of teachers are idiots nowadays.

[Snowy]

It never ends... last Thursday our daughter didn't go to school.
When she returned on Friday, she was told by one of the teachers that another student was saying she skipped because she was hung over from getting drunk. She was home with us all night the day and night before, and was in bed at bedtime. We're light sleepers and would know if she left her room in the middle of the night.

Now, we're not naive or blind to our daughter, but she doesn't drink and she's not doing drugs.
(People say you never know, but our daughter doesn't. First, she's home all the time, second, we'd know, and when she comes home from a football game or being with friends or something she visits with us... we know).
We understand it doesn't mean she never will, but we know she doesn't partake in these kinds of activities, and hasn't up to this point in her life.
She really is a good kid. I can't wait for her to graduate and get out of this juvenile system they call public education.

It was a so-called friend with whom she is currently on the outs, and the teacher knows our daughter isn't like that. This is a good teacher who has been there for our daughter and helped her with her academics as well as issues with other students. There ar some good teachers out there. They're just getting less plentiful.

I'm very anxious to hear the outcome of your daughter's situation, Epi. Good luck at the meeting.

[Krom]

Sure wish that they could clone the good ones. crying01

(IH... I hear ya, bro. I wasn't ignoring your posts. Jus' had a plateful at the time.)

[Islandhunter]

Sure wish that they could clone the good ones. crying01

(IH... I hear ya, bro. I wasn't ignoring your posts. Jus' had a plateful at the time.)


Joe...no prob..I already know how you feel about things in general...and they way we both think is generally the same. ;)

[RickO]

Epi... I would skip the formalities and take a lawyer to the meeting.. tell them so, they will not reschedule again. The only way to fight this is with force.. and they are scared to death of a lawsuit... they know that they will lose. Superior power, first, - it wins every time. RickO

[bigjohn070]

WOW I have a 7 yr old myself.
Please keep us informed on your
progress.

[hoser]

Angie I'm a firm believer in the old addage; Innocent till proven guilty Even in a court of law there has to be indisputable proof of guilt. If they can't produce that for you nail them, nail them good. I have read and heard of so many stories of kids doing or saying that so-in-so did this just to get them in trouble. Good luck on this lady. ;)

[hawgdawg]

i understand what your feeling,i got custody of my daughter when she was about 7, shes now 21, i found that the schools seem to think they are above you, the parent, ive had numerous run ins with them, and they all seemed to treat me like they didnt have to talk to me, and did not have to address any of my concerns.in her 10th year of school, at the beginning of school, we needed to get her schedule changed, we went to the counseler, and he said we would have to wait till school was in at least a week, a week later, we went to do this and was told it was to late to change any schedules,me being the hothead that i can be,just about went off on that sob,i took a couple of breaths and looked at him and said that right there at that moment, i want her school documents because i was taking her out of thier school and id let her be homeschooled, because if they were able to lie to me and my daughter like that, they did not have the morals i required for them to be teaching my kid, after seeing a few different people to get all the paperwork, one lady even seemed to understand what i was dealing with.
oooh well, just venting, long story short, good luck--- but just let your daughter know how much you love her and stand by her,

[Dave]

I wouldn't stand for this. You see, I wouldn't be able to be diplomatic in this situation. I would sound like Roy D Mercer on the phone with these people! By god! It's always better to get an outside party involved in this type of fight.

[Snowy]

This is so weird... We were at the VFW for a couple beers the night before Thanksgiving and who walks in...?
The chairwoman of the school board, and her husband, who is also on the board.
You thinkin' Uh-oh .. ? Well, I wasn't... :twirlingeyes:
I was good... just a couple beers in me, but just enough.
I've known these 2 people for a loooong time... I worked for the newspaper for many years and they've been involved with the school board since before I was a reporter/editor.

I told them I was so glad our daughter is in her last year of this juvenile system they call public education.
I told them nothing against them, and I don't know how they do it, but how do you fix it?
I told them I don't know how they do it. For as long as they have, I know I couldn't.
They are good people. I discussed a couple scenarios with them and they agreed it's a difficult situation.

Ugh.. this could be a long post, but I'll leave it at this.
The chairwoman was agreeable, though. She made 2 comments preceeded by, I'll be shot for this, but I'll say it anyway...
We left, said Happy Thanksgiving, great to see you again, and she offered for me to call her any time.
I might.

[Islandhunter]

Just realized something....you said they searched her looking for the calculator? Did they call you before searching her and who was present when they searched her and how thorough was the search? This search could not only be against school policy but could be illegal as well and could be cause for criminal charges as well as a lawsuit.....jsut some more ammo for ya when you finally get them to agree to meet with you.

[sectshun8]

I'm so caught up in the suspense... any closure to any of this? :confused:

[Epi-hunter]

No closure yet, mostly because my daughter has been sick for the last week and hasn't been in school. But my emails are going unanswered. :mad:

[Snowy]

Expect no answer form the school via email, but save them as proof of attempts to contact.

[Islandhunter]

Expect no answer form the school via email, but save them as proof of attempts to contact.


Another reason to get your blood pressure up...They seem to forget that they work for us and as taxpayes WE pay their salary/ document EVERYTHING and file a complaint with the school board and then with your selectman and with anyone else in your town with influence. Also as someone mentioned earlier....get a petition going complaining about school policy and get as many people to sign it as possible for numbers scare em. If the school board ignores you then attend a selectmans meeting and with your numbers on the complaint state that you want a recall vote and have the school board members ALL replaced.
Time to get PISSED!! but in a controlled productive way. :beatdown:

[Calvin]

I'd probably switch schools if possible....maybe a good private school if one is close. When my oldest son was in 5th grade he was sucker punched by a kid who weighed 50 lbs more than him....right in the stomach. When the teacher found my son curled up on the floor crying with this bully standing over him, they BOTH were sent to detention for fighting. In my talk with the principal, I was told that it was the policy to punish both kids. So then I asked the principal if he had any objection to my telling my son to defending himself with oh...say....a softball bat if one was handy.... and that would result in equal punishment... right:huh: The loser principal didn't have anything to say. Unfortunately, this was in a private school. If it had been in the public school, the bigger kid would have had the cops to deal with and an assault charge. My son ended up in the hospital with a duodinal hemotomo (sp?) which is a bruise to the outlet of the stomach. This was about 36 hours after the assault. The doctor told me that if we hadn't brought him in to the emergency room that night, he would have died in his sleep. My son weighed about 90 pounds at the time. Overnight in the hospital, they gave him 5 (FIVE) liters of intravenous fluids to rehydrate him. 5 liters must weigh a little more than 10 pounds going into a 90 pound boy. I could have lost him that night. The next year, he was in a better school with very defined rules and policies, was training in karate and was instructed to defend himself agressively and decisively. As far as I know, no one messed with him and he eventually graduated with a full scholarship to the U of Mn.

So, trust your parental instincts Angie - God gave them to you to protect your children.