z118
07-10-2018, 06:58 PM
I can't seem to figure out how to edit my previous thread so I'm posting this in a new one; hopefully the admins will let me know if this is not the correct thing to do (and if so how to fix it).
I recently posted a counterfeit 1834 half dollar; thank you all for the replies and responses - especially OxShoeDrew for directing me to CCCBHCC - the Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Half Collectors Club. I reached out to one of the good folks (Larry) at that website and he gave me the following info:
"Quite sure you've found a variety known as an 1834 2/B Davignon. This variety was originally described as follows:
Obv. 2 Small date
Rev. B Small letters in legend
Les-Between E and D
Res-Between A and M
Obv. 18 is larger than 34. 4 is high.
Rev. Right side of I aligns with left side of T. 50 is small, with 5 lower than 0.
Obviously cast, but does not match any genuine dies.
An interesting note about this variety is that the "obviously cast" reference is perhaps not true. Given that it does not match any genuine matched dies that a cast of a genuine coin would have had to have been it is quite possible to be a previously unidentified transfer die. You might find the ccCBHcc.com Collectors Corner article Transfer Die contemporary Counterfeits ( http://cccbhcc.com/collectors-corner.html#transfer (https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcccbhcc.com%2Fcollectors-corner.html%23transfer&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbc9f4236e4d94774020708d5e5a81ece %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366 67432833548124&sdata=FNwOG%2BhMt3mJxQ18F1NZCEU%2FQwS97QVfqe1KSRbu ib8%3D&reserved=0) ) of interest. A transfer die designation would explain that an obverse transfer die from one genuine coin and a reverse transfer die from a second genuine coin were used.
While the 1834 2/B was published in the 2nd Edition as a Rare rarity the current rarity is Very Scarce (3 to 5 known specimens). Your 1834 2/B would be the 5th currently known specimen.
The dating of transfer die bust half dollar contemporary counterfeits is not known although as stated in the article I pointed you to range up to the last year of the Capped Bust halves dated 1839. Ranges for the dating your specimen are estimated up to the 1850s - 1860s when this type of half dollar was still in general circulation having been replace by the Liberty Seated half dollar. I agree with you that your specimen would have been considered a genuine coin when it was lost before you found it again.
Because the plating is uniquely flaking your specimen has numismatic value to a collector in the study of transfer dies. Certainly an unusual circumstance. I believe your flaking on a transfer die specimen would be of interest to collectors in a short article in the ccCBHcc.com Collectors Corner."
What amazing info! While I think I'd still rather have found the real thing (it would have been my oldest silver), this is nevertheless a pretty cool find. Ironically it's probably a rarer find than the real thing would have been. Regrettably, the lot I found it in has already been dug up for the basement of a new building, so the opportunity to hunt it again is likely gone.
Happy Hunting!
I recently posted a counterfeit 1834 half dollar; thank you all for the replies and responses - especially OxShoeDrew for directing me to CCCBHCC - the Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Half Collectors Club. I reached out to one of the good folks (Larry) at that website and he gave me the following info:
"Quite sure you've found a variety known as an 1834 2/B Davignon. This variety was originally described as follows:
Obv. 2 Small date
Rev. B Small letters in legend
Les-Between E and D
Res-Between A and M
Obv. 18 is larger than 34. 4 is high.
Rev. Right side of I aligns with left side of T. 50 is small, with 5 lower than 0.
Obviously cast, but does not match any genuine dies.
An interesting note about this variety is that the "obviously cast" reference is perhaps not true. Given that it does not match any genuine matched dies that a cast of a genuine coin would have had to have been it is quite possible to be a previously unidentified transfer die. You might find the ccCBHcc.com Collectors Corner article Transfer Die contemporary Counterfeits ( http://cccbhcc.com/collectors-corner.html#transfer (https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcccbhcc.com%2Fcollectors-corner.html%23transfer&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbc9f4236e4d94774020708d5e5a81ece %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6366 67432833548124&sdata=FNwOG%2BhMt3mJxQ18F1NZCEU%2FQwS97QVfqe1KSRbu ib8%3D&reserved=0) ) of interest. A transfer die designation would explain that an obverse transfer die from one genuine coin and a reverse transfer die from a second genuine coin were used.
While the 1834 2/B was published in the 2nd Edition as a Rare rarity the current rarity is Very Scarce (3 to 5 known specimens). Your 1834 2/B would be the 5th currently known specimen.
The dating of transfer die bust half dollar contemporary counterfeits is not known although as stated in the article I pointed you to range up to the last year of the Capped Bust halves dated 1839. Ranges for the dating your specimen are estimated up to the 1850s - 1860s when this type of half dollar was still in general circulation having been replace by the Liberty Seated half dollar. I agree with you that your specimen would have been considered a genuine coin when it was lost before you found it again.
Because the plating is uniquely flaking your specimen has numismatic value to a collector in the study of transfer dies. Certainly an unusual circumstance. I believe your flaking on a transfer die specimen would be of interest to collectors in a short article in the ccCBHcc.com Collectors Corner."
What amazing info! While I think I'd still rather have found the real thing (it would have been my oldest silver), this is nevertheless a pretty cool find. Ironically it's probably a rarer find than the real thing would have been. Regrettably, the lot I found it in has already been dug up for the basement of a new building, so the opportunity to hunt it again is likely gone.
Happy Hunting!