Here's one for us to ponder....

[Jack Flynn]

A few days ago I wandered out in the yard with a hand full of coins and the E Trac. I had the question in my mind about missing coins and why it would happen. I've been digging quite a few coins that were on edge or just off being on edge in the plugs I would cut out. I threw five coins on the ground flat and ran the coil over them and they all gave the correct reading for what they were. I stood them on edge and pushed each one of them in the ground all the way with my shoe in the vertical on edge position. I ran the coil over each one of them in a horizontal scan and only hit one of them, the penny. The silver quarter, clad quarter, nickle, and dime, no response at all, or maybe just a click or slight chirp. Strange to me but then I got to thinking (dangerous I know) I scanned all from a vertical stroke, in line with the detection field of the DD and it picked all of them up and had excellent ID's. Got me to thinking again :-\I don't know but it seems like the size of the object, coin sizes, diameter, is what the #'s and good warbles most likely come from, am I right? Now if I tilted the coil just slightly towards each of the coins as if a coin was just off being on edge I would pick up the diameter and would get a signal on the scan. I wonder just how many coins might fit this criteria that are missed. I've mentioned before, not here that my finds go up when I hunt in circles so to speak which is the way I hunt mostly. That just might be giving me a different angle of approach as I overlap as I slowly move forward circling. That could most definately be the reason why quite a few coins only give a signal from one direction..........What do we think here? Give the test a try. Still exploring this new world I guess.

[Epi-hunter]

I think you are right on. And I think too that, just as coinnut said earlier tonight in another thread, 'we all walk over coins'.

I think we are all looking for the textbook signals, and we dig those, and even when we dig outside that range we have a predefined definition of it which very well may not be covering all.

[OkieDigger]

I know we all miss coins for one reason or another. I have been digging a lot of the iffy target signals. I've dug quite a few on edge (and/or nearly on edge) coins to tell me the E-Trac finds them pretty well. In my process of determining whether or not to dig, I go at the target from star like pattern (not just four sides like when I have good tone). I pay special attention to not only the tone, but the FE bounciness. Imagine for a moment that an FE of 12 is a trampoline without someone on it. Now lets imagine a coin is like someone who is jumping on the trampoline. The deeper the coin and/or the more on edge it is, the more it likes to bounce. That bounce goes both ways. However, just like a trampoline, the bounce will tend to be higher rather than lower. Make sense? Ultimately that FE will bounce all over, but it will always come back to the baseline of 12. Now imagine the CO is the long hair of the bouncer. The longer the hair, the smaller the target. The higher you bounce the more your hair moves, but because it's relative to the bouncer, it really doesn't move much. Have I lost you yet? When you pinpoint a target like this, if it's in the center of the trampoline, it's more than likely a coin. If it's on the edges of the trampoline, it's probably rusty iron. On edge coins have a tendency to not be in the center of your pinpoint. They still show in the center mind you, but they'll be on the edge of the hole.

[Epi-hunter]

Have I lost you yet?


Now that is a great analogy lol From now on, every time I dig a deep coin I'm going to be visualizing myself on a trampoline lol

[Jason in Enid]

Yeah, that's a great way to explain it. I understood it. And like Epi, I'll probably be thinking of a trampoline next time I get out.

[deltacornbread]

I found a coin yesterday that I almost did not dig. Numbers were different when changing directions, but I dug anyway. Coin was at the edge of the hole. I also think that as I was digging the coin turned, because I went from bouncing numbers to good solid numbers. The down side is that most of these type readings are just what you think they are. Trash. And digging in this saturated gumbo soil is a pain. So any little tidbit of new information posted is good!

[OkieDigger]

That's the thing, on edge coins act just like trash. The difference is they don't pinpoint like trash. Also, the CO tends to be in the low 40's unlike trash which tends to be in the high 40's or bouncy. The only thing I would be scared of is passing up large, deep silver coins. Those have higher CO numbers. Fortunately, or unfortunately, we don't have a lot of quarters and halves lost here.

[bigjohn070]

Wow You guy's and gal's are good.
I could never relay my methods
into words on how I sniff out those
tough targets. Great Thread!!

HH
BIG JOHN

[earthmansurfer]

I know we all miss coins for one reason or another. I have been digging a lot of the iffy target signals. I've dug quite a few on edge (and/or nearly on edge) coins to tell me the E-Trac finds them pretty well. In my process of determining whether or not to dig, I go at the target from star like pattern (not just four sides like when I have good tone). I pay special attention to not only the tone, but the FE bounciness. Imagine for a moment that an FE of 12 is a trampoline without someone on it. Now lets imagine a coin is like someone who is jumping on the trampoline. The deeper the coin and/or the more on edge it is, the more it likes to bounce. That bounce goes both ways. However, just like a trampoline, the bounce will tend to be higher rather than lower. Make sense? Ultimately that FE will bounce all over, but it will always come back to the baseline of 12. Now imagine the CO is the long hair of the bouncer. The longer the hair, the smaller the target. The higher you bounce the more your hair moves, but because it's relative to the bouncer, it really doesn't move much. Have I lost you yet? When you pinpoint a target like this, if it's in the center of the trampoline, it's more than likely a coin. If it's on the edges of the trampoline, it's probably rusty iron. On edge coins have a tendency to not be in the center of your pinpoint. They still show in the center mind you, but they'll be on the edge of the hole.


Ok, I went through the 4 pages of posts, at least those that sounded interesting in the title. This one came up and is sticking with me. Using an E-Trac, at least for starters, is different in how the target is represented on the 2D screen. Now, add bouncing coins into that and it gives you a different feel for the target. I like this trampoline analogy and when I'm looking for deeper coins, at least in my soil, I am expecting that bounce to 18 or even 24 ish.

Mostly the bounce is up and down (Fe plane) but I have gotten a huge bounce up, down and all the way to the left:huh: The most typical bounces would be up and down and then triangular.

Thought you guys might be inspired by this old post. And there are some other nice ones I feel like replying to!

Take care,
Albert

[Dug D]

Interesting, I think back to my first BH manual, it said coins will be laying flat so of course I tested it and found even air testing the detector had problems with coins standing on edge.
Moving ahead a couple years, I finally figure out that with my X-50 a coin on edge/tilted can pinpoint as much as 3 inches off ?
Then I hear old timers in the club I belong to, saying in the seeded silver hunts the fishers (red legs) have the advantage because those fishers do better with the tilted coins (often they don't lay flat) and they find them quicker. (anyone else ever heard this?)
So how do I find all those on edge coins?

[earthmansurfer]

Interesting, I think back to my first BH manual, it said coins will be laying flat so of course I tested it and found even air testing the detector had problems with coins standing on edge.
Moving ahead a couple years, I finally figure out that with my X-50 a coin on edge/tilted can pinpoint as much as 3 inches off ?
Then I hear old timers in the club I belong to, saying in the seeded silver hunts the fishers (red legs) have the advantage because those fishers do better with the tilted coins (often they don't lay flat) and they find them quicker. (anyone else ever heard this?)
So how do I find all those on edge coins?


Honestly, if they are less than 4 or so deep, you can angle your coil some so that you pick them up better! That is not very efficient but it could work on an iffy target. I read that so don't take credit for it.

Outside of that, not a clue. We just have to investigate those subtle target responses.

[mcdoogal]

Many times when i get the iffy signals with an interesting tone I swing on the target from different angels like an asterisk. If it still sounds iffy from every direction, I try TTF. After trying this 95% of the time I feel that I have enough info to make a pretty good dig or no dig decision. I try to err on the side of dig it.