First time out with a little knowledge

[Finster]

I was up at our cabin last weekend and went to an old campground just down the road.
After reading alot of good info on here and with my new pro pointer I was determined to find some coins.
It was fairly cold but some of the ground had thawed enough to dig and I was itching to get out.
I was there from noon until it was too dark to see what I was digging, but I learned alot about my new Fisher F4.
It worked REALLY well and I have learned what tone is truly a coin vs 22 case, trash etc.
Overall it was a great day! The pro pointer was amazing and sped the process up significantly.
I am going to need a bigger junk jar though. My girls think it is better than the coin jar. It is just a mason jar full of the odds and ends.
Here is my big haul for the day. $1.56 in coins (nothing old surprisingly) The best find was a quarter at about 9". I was hiking my pants up after that one;)
Thanks to all of you that have contributed all the useful advice, it really does help the new people like myself.

36777

[del]

thats a good array of targets to wet your teeth on , digging everything is very important when just starting out with a new machine . it so quickens the learning process , great job and congrats on the coins totals Finster:thumbsup02:.

Dan

[giant056]

Great haul you got there :thumbsup01:

[OxShoeDrew]

Those bottle caps are tricky. They say to move off center while swinging and they'll lower their signal. Same with raising the coil...but I still dig 'em all the time. You seem to be doing all the right things. Keep it up.:yes:

[coinnut]

Well if your goal was to dig a coin, I believe it worked out well :thumbsup01: A very productive hunt. A lot was learned that day.

[Timewarpdigger]

Congrats on the finds and I was really glad when I bought my pinpointer, don't go anywhere without it. Good luck, Safe & HH

[Digger Don]

Looks like you had a really good day!!
Congrats

[Finster]

Thanks for the kind words. I have so much to learn, but at least I did find a good assortment of things.
I was shocked at how I lost track of time so easily. An hour seemed to pass in no time at all.
The good part is that I only searched 4 campsites, there are 10 total. Also a parking area and a his and hers outhouse to search at a later date.
It is a primitive campground. No water or electricity.
The neat part is there is an old stagecoach rest stop about 150 yards beyond the campground in a meadow. I plan to search there when the weather is nicer. Any tips on that? I figured do the meadow and also the surrounding large trees? Maybe they would rest up against them to get out of the sun back then? And it must have been one heck of a ride in a stagecoach back then, it goes right through the mountain. I think I would have walked.
Thanks again!

[del]

a stage stop suggests a place to either refresh the horses and travelers with water or to replace the horses altogether with new ones . In which case there had to be a barn and corral and even a small tavern nearby. do your research you may find that theres more to the spot then first thought.

Dan

[Finster]

Thanks Dan. I used to hunt there with my Grandfather when I was a kid. I have never seen any signs of any structure there. There is still a spring fed stream right before the meadow. And this place is way back off the main road even today.
I will ask one of the long time residents if they know anything about it. It sounds like it was just a place to water the horses and let the passengers get out and stretch their legs. I am hoping to find my first old silver coin back in there!
Ray

[KCFindIt]

Welcome, Ray, to this forum. I, too, am a newbie, both to detecting and to forums. I've only been MDing since November, and am crazily addicted. Always looking for my next hunt. I am amazed at how much I learn EACH time I go out. I do have a question for you. You said you hunted "an old campground" near your cabin. Do you mean one that has been there a long time and still in business, or one that is defunct and not being used any more? If it is still in use, did you ask for permission to hunt, or did you just go hunt and hope nobody runs you off? I have asked for permission at several campgrounds, all with negative results, :(. I'm trying to get the courage to just go somewhere (public) without asking and hope nobody cares.

[Finster]

KC FindIt- This campground has been there since the 60's, 70's for certain. We used to go there when I was a kid.
It is on National Forest land and after checking the USDA.gov site it states that recreational metal detecting IS allowed on National Forest Land.
Here is a clip from their policy found at their website: Just google national forest metal detecting.
There is a CCC campsite up by our cabin BUT is clearly states that it is a historical site so that would be off limits because of the historical listing. The campsite I went to has no designation whatsoever. If there is an old homesite/building that could have historical significance then it must be left alone. I checked and double checked this on their website, but if anyone wants to chime in please do.
"Metal detecting is a low surface impact activity that involves digging small holes rarely

more than six inches deep. Normally, metal detecting does not require a notice of intent

or written authorization since it only involves searching for and occasionally removing

small rock samples or mineral specimens (36 CFR 228.4(a)).

Metal detectors may be used on public land in areas that do not contain or would not

reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical resources. Normally,

developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed recreation sites are

open to recreational metal detecting unless there are archaeological or historical resources

present. In such cases, forest supervisors are authorized to close the area to metal

detecting and the closure would be posted at the site. Such closure notices are not always

practical in undeveloped areas, and federal agencies have not identified every

archaeological site on public lands. It is possible; therefore, that you may encounter such

archaeological remains that have not yet been documented or an area that is not closed

even though it does indeed contain such remains. Archaeological remains on public land

are protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them

undisturbed and notify a FS office."

[Finster]

Here is another piece from the website:
4. Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching

for gold nuggets, lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no


historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming
areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume

personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or

historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest

Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal

Regulations or ARPA.

Metal detecting on the National Forests is recognized as a legitimate prospecting method

under the General Mining Laws and also as a recreational activity for the casual

collection of rocks and minerals. This policy does not permit the use of metal detectors in

or around known or undiscovered cultural or historic sites in order to protect our

valuable, non-renewable historical resources. However, recognizing the universal

interest in archaeology and history and the vast public knowledge of such resources, the

USDA Forest Service sponsors a public archaeology program through which metal

detector enthusiasts and others can help.

[Finster]

I will call the local forest ranger for that district tomorrow to confirm all this, as I was going by what is stated on the USDA website.
My assumption was that this was fine and was a completely legal activity.
I would not recommend going anywhere without confirming that it is ok first.
Here in Manassas they do not allow metal detecting in the city of Manassas (public areas) to my knowledge. I work at an elementary school here in Prince William county and the principal gave me permission to go over the playgrounds anytime I want. But I would not go to another school without asking first.
Better safe than sorry!

[tanacat]

Wow that's the most respectful and detailed set of rules I've ever seen!

Yay for the bigger 'junk' jar! :thumbsup02: I started this for the older coins, but developed a passion for the relics. I think the research is one of best parts of this hobby. Have you seen the Google Earth Overlay tutorial on the Home page here? I've been enjoying sliding the overlay on historical aerials.com as Randy suggested. A bit obsessed actually :lol: lots of extra time during this frozen ground and school cancellations. I have 2 boys age 6 & 8. How old are your daughters? That's great they're enjoying your finds :)

[coinnut]

I will call the local forest ranger for that district tomorrow to confirm all this, as I was going by what is stated on the USDA website.
My assumption was that this was fine and was a completely legal activity.
I would not recommend going anywhere without confirming that it is ok first.
Here in Manassas they do not allow metal detecting in the city of Manassas (public areas) to my knowledge. I work at an elementary school here in Prince William county and the principal gave me permission to go over the playgrounds anytime I want. But I would not go to another school without asking first.
Better safe than sorry!


WOW :shocked04: I want to move there.:lol: That is the smartest policy I have seen written. :clapping: I wouldn't ask anyone for permission. I would just have a copy of that in my vehicle incase you are approached. It is spelled out to satisfy both recreational detectorists but also protects Archaeological sites. Whoever wrote that law deserves a "high five" letter :thumbsup02:

[giant056]

I've never read that about the National Forest's but right there it is, I always thought all federal land was off limits myself but evidently the National forests aren't all off limits, that's some fantastic information you found there Finster, I'm going to have to go to their website and give it some more scrutinizing :yahoo:

[KCFindIt]

Thank you so much for your reply and the resulting answer. It has renewed my "hope" for finding appropriate locations, that I had previously ruled out due to mis-information.

[Finster]

Tanacat-our girls are 12 and 15. THe younger daughterwants to go out with me. Today the temp is 0 in Manassas, so it will be a while before I get back out. We have not been in school yet this week due to the holiday, snow and frigid temps.
I will try to put the link here for all to read. This is for the National Forest. It does not apply to VA state forest.
We are so bored here that I am thinking about hiding some coins in the 15 yr olds room and letting the younger one search for them in all the mess!
Here is the text from the pdf file:
MINERAL, ROCK COLLECTING AND METAL DETECTING ON THE

NATIONAL FORESTS

1

It is Forest Service policy that the recreational use of metal detectors and the collection of

rocks and mineral samples are allowed on the National Forests. Generally, most of the

National Forests are open to recreational mineral and rock collecting, gold panning and

prospecting using a metal detector. This low impact, casual activity usually does not

require any authorization.

On some eastern Forests gold panning does require a letter of authorization due to the

high clay content of the soils. It is always wise to check with the local District Ranger if

you have questions. Some wilderness areas are closed to gold panning and metal

detecting.

Metal detecting is a legitimate means of locating gold or other mineral specimens and can

be an effective prospecting tool for locating larger mineral deposits. This activity can also

be conducted as a recreational activity locating lost coins, jewelry or other incidental

metallic items of little historical value. Prospecting using a metal detector can be

conducted under the General Mining Laws and is covered under the Forest Service 36

CFR 228A locatable mineral regulations for lands open to mineral entry. Metal detecting

for treasure trove or lost items such as coins and jewelry is managed as a non mineralsrelated

recreation activity.

Metal detecting is a low surface impact activity that involves digging small holes rarely

more than six inches deep. Normally, metal detecting does not require a notice of intent

or written authorization since it only involves searching for and occasionally removing

small rock samples or mineral specimens (36 CFR 228.4(a)).

Metal detectors may be used on public land in areas that do not contain or would not

reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical resources. Normally,

developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed recreation sites are

open to recreational metal detecting unless there are archaeological or historical resources

present. In such cases, forest supervisors are authorized to close the area to metal

detecting and the closure would be posted at the site. Such closure notices are not always

practical in undeveloped areas, and federal agencies have not identified every

archaeological site on public lands. It is possible; therefore, that you may encounter such

archaeological remains that have not yet been documented or an area that is not closed

even though it does indeed contain such remains. Archaeological remains on public land

are protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them

undisturbed and notify a FS office.

The purpose of the restrictions to metal detecting on public lands is to protect historical

remains. The
Code of Federal Regulations, (36 CFR 261.9) states, "The following are

prohibited: (g) Digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying, or in any way

damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, or

property. (h) Removing any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure,

site, artifact, property." The
Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA, 16

U.S.C. 470cc:) also prohibits these activities, stating, "No person may excavate, remove,

damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or otherwise

2

alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian lands

unless such activity is pursuant to a permit...”
ARPA exempts the collection of coins for

personal use
if the coins are not in an archaeological context. In some cases, historically

significant coins and other metallic artifacts may be part of an historical-period

archaeological site, in which case they would be considered archaeological resources and

are protected under law.
These laws apply to all National Forest System land and do not

vary from state to state.

Four forms of metal detector use are recognized.

1. Searching for treasure trove: Treasure trove is defined as money, gems, or

precious metals in the form of coin, plate, or bullion that has been deliberately

hidden with the intention of recovering it later. This activity requires a Special

Use Permit under The Act of June 4, 1897 (16 U.S.C. 551). Forest Service

Manual 272
4.4 states “allow persons to search for buried treasure on National

Forest System lands, but protect the rights of the public regarding ownership of or

claims on any recovered property.”

2. Prospecting: Using a metal detector to locate gold or other mineral deposits is an

allowed activity under the General Mining Laws and is subject to the 36 CFR

228A regulations. A Notice of Intent (36 CFR 228.4(a)) is normally not required

for prospecting using a metal detector. A Notice of Intent (NOI) is required for

any prospecting which might cause disturbance of surface resources. A plan of

operation is required for any prospecting that will likely cause significant

disturbance of surface resources. Normal metal detecting does not cause surface

impacts that require either a NOI or a Plan of Operation. People who use metal

detectors for prospecting should bear in mind that many of the mineralized lands

within the National Forests and open to mineral entry have been “claimed” by

others who have sole right to prospect and develop the mineral resources found on

the mining claim. A search of County and Bureau of Land Management records

should be made prior to prospecting to determine if an area has been claimed.

Normally, any gold found can be removed and kept. If the removal of the gold,

rocks, or minerals might cause disturbance of surface resources, beyond digging a

small shallow hole, a NOI may be required.

3. Searching for historic or prehistoric artifacts: Using a metal detector to locate

archaeological or historical remains is subject to the Antiquities Act of 1906 and

the Archeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) as amended and

requires a special use permit. Such permits are granted for scientific research

only, however, there are many ways to get involved with organized, scientific

research. See below for ways to use metal detectors for this purpose under

sanctioned public archaeology programs.

4. Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching

for gold nuggets, lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no

3

historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming

areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume

personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or

historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest

Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal

Regulations or ARPA.

Metal detecting on the National Forests is recognized as a legitimate prospecting method

under the General Mining Laws and also as a recreational activity for the casual

collection of rocks and minerals. This policy does not permit the use of metal detectors in

or around known or undiscovered cultural or historic sites in order to protect our

valuable, non-renewable historical resources. However, recognizing the universal

interest in archaeology and history and the vast public knowledge of such resources, the

USDA Forest Service sponsors a public archaeology program through which metal

detector enthusiasts and others can help. Passport In Time (PIT) is a national program

inviting the public to work with agency archaeologists on historic preservation projects.

We have done numerous projects through PIT in cooperation with metal detecting clubs

and individuals. The cooperation has been beneficial for both the detectorists and

agency’s archaeologists. Locating archaeological sites becomes a joint endeavor a
nd we

learn a great deal. If you would like more information on this program, call 1-800-281-

9176 or visit
www.passportintime.com.

Mike Doran May 27, 2009

[coinnut]

I tried the link but was denied access :shocked04: They are on to me :lol:

[Finster]

Sorry about that. I put the texrt from the pdf file there instead. I can send you the pdf file if you like.

[Finster]

Coinnut, it is my fault. I have the pdf file but can not get the link to work no matter what I try.
I put everything in the post and deleted the link. Sorry ;)

[don in ny]

For someone just starting out you did great. You found a lot of coins and seem like you were detecting a productive area. At this stage you are learning what signals sound like and how they read with your detector. Here's my advice. Slow down. Take your time. Many people start out going to fast and can miss the older, deeper coins. Also, make sure you're not swinging your loop high above the ground. Try and keep it level just above the ground without arching at the end of each swing. You'll get a lot more this way. Good luck!

[coinnut]

Coinnut, it is my fault. I have the pdf file but can not get the link to work no matter what I try.
I put everything in the post and deleted the link. Sorry ;)

No big deal, Thanks for the information on it. I saw a lot of eyebrows raised when they found out you can detect in certain areas :huh: