How to clean wheats?

[tanacat]

Since I started MD'ing, I've been adding my wheats to hubby's collection booklet that he started as a boy and lost interest. Mine are not quite as 'nice' as his lol How should I clean them to get the deep set dirt off? I've heard briefly about a hydrogen peroxide/ baking soda method- will someone please give me details or other suggestion? :grin:

[coinnut]

Hey Tana, a picture of some of the different types of them would help a lot. I know in some areas, they are in nice shape, but just dirty. Up here, ours can be anywhere from just dirty to extremely green. Different methods for different corrosion.

[randy]

I've used the hydrogen peroxide method to get caked on dirt off (I don't think it is good for other problems), and it seems to work pretty good. I heat some up in the microwave til it is bubbling, and drop the coin in on edge (holding it up with toothpicks or something like that. Every so often I scrape the loose crud off with a q-tip, and repeat. Make sure you DON'T use a 100% solution! I think the stuff you buy at the drugstore is 3%; that's what I've used. The coin will get really hot, so be careful. I also think you can ruin coppers doing this if it is the wrong type of corrosion. I've never tried it with a more valuable copper than a wheat.

[xzlr8n]

I do what Randy does except I put the coins and Peroxide together in a pyrex custard dish and then nuke them together in the microwave for about 40 seconds. I know, I know, I know :behave: your not suppose to put metal in microwaves - but this works real nice with no disastrous results. The peroxide really boils/bubbles this way and cleans up the pennies in about 15 minutes soak time. After soaking I use a finger/hand cleaning brush and give each coin a quick scrub. I wouldn't do this with a high value coin like a 1914-d or 1909-s VDB, but I feel most others wheats coming out of the ground are toast anyway, not worth much more than copper value. So with nothing more than something nice to look at once in a while why not clean wheats up as best as possible. Most of the time the Wheats and Memorials end up a nice dark black brown color, most of the green verdigris will come off the mildly green coins. I'd even go as a far to say some of the ones I've cleaned up look better than ones I found over the years in circulation and wouldn't hesitate to put them in my Wheat book's (I'd almost be tempted to try a dug 1912-s or something of that value using this technique and put the sucker in my book). I've tried a lot of other techniques and this has been by far the best.

Side note: you can also heat up your coffe with the spoon still in the cup and end up with coffee hot and the spoon cold, no sparks flying around either. This is where I came up with the idea of nuking both the peroxide and coins all at once.

[tanacat]

:shocked04: I would be too nervous to try that!!! 8/

Thanks for the insight on the cleaning method. Out of 21 I have only 3 that are really green crusty ones, I'll have to soak them longer. The others have a dark grime layer that is very satisfying to get off! I can see the gunk wipe off on white wash cloth after the peroxide soak... I'll try it again with some q-tips to get more detailed.

I'll post some pics later; before and after and my whole wheat collection too lol I know, real exciting!

[xzlr8n]

Trust me nothing bad will happen. Try 10 seconds first to get a feel for it. Boiling / bubbling is key to getting the dirt off. Instead of finger/nail brush a toothbrush also works but takes more effort to get the stuborn dirt out of the crevices.thumbsup01

Like Coinnut implied some wheats might be too far gone as far as corrosion goes. If you see the edges flaking or crumbley green stuff coming of the faces then they are probably too far gone. Be careful with these because they could end up being nothing more than a corroded copper slug with little or no identifiable details!!

[tanacat]

Here's a few pics- typical before and after


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_6971.jpg

I don't think there's any hope for the green ones...

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_6969.jpg


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_6961.jpg

You can tell mine vs hubbies by being so dark!

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_6959.jpg

[coinnut]

The ones that are just dirty, try soaking them in water to soften the dirt and then use a tooth brush to remove the rest of the dirt. On the green and red ones? This is how you will learn to clean coins. Consider them guinea pigs lol. Try the hot hydrogen peroxide method on them and use a sorta stiff brass brush. If you can get a brush that is in block form and not the skinny tooth brush looking kind, it will be easier. I clean a lot of things with that brass brush :embarrassed:

[tanacat]

I clean a lot of things with that brass brush :embarrassed:


Shame on you! :behave: :behave: :behave: I've been needing a reason to try the new smiley...

Now aren't you the one who told me not to do anything to anything at anytime? :huh:
Back when I was wanting to 'oil' my 1833 LC cuz it looked better/more detailed fresh out of a bath? lol

Yes that's a good idea- my little guinea pigs. I'll soak a crusty green one in olive oil for a month. Microwave for uh 15 minutes right? lol sorry still not sure if he's pulling my leg, I can't do it. And I know I've got a brass brush around here somewhere. I used the edge of a knife to no avail. Of course I wouldn't do the latter with a worthy coin 8/

[coinnut]

Microwave (Hydrogen Peroxide?)yes...coin inside microwave no lol 15 minutes? or until golden brown rofl How about 15 seconds!!!!!I told you don't clean anything cause you were a newbie (or so I thought) ;) But the olive oil thing? How long you gonna live?.... that's all I have to say about olive oil lol Oh and this smiley works much better :bop: Black eye and all lol

[xzlr8n]

Microwave Peroxide for 15 to 40 seconds tops. Drop coins in and SOAK for 15 minutes.

What I do and why: Put the coins and Peroxide together in a pyrex custard dish and then nuke them together in the microwave for about 40 seconds, by 40 seconds it is really bubbling vigoriously. Microwaving copper coins with the peroxide heats up the coins and liquid together and therefore keeps the peroxide bubbling longer, instead of dumping cold coins into hot peroxide which cools it down quicker and hense less cleaning action. Microwaves work on heating stuff by exciting dipole moments, water is a perfect dipole molecule with its two hydrogens and one oxygen. The microwaves work on the two hydrogens attached to the oxygen and gets them fluttering excitedly thus creating heat. Metal atoms also have dipole moments, along with most other compounds, but they are locked together much more tighly and take longer to get as excited as water does. So making a long story short, microwave ovens heat up food quickly because of their water. Yes, given enough time most other compounds will heat up and eventually burn in a microwave. Microwave popcorn bags have a special thin metal plate at the bottom of the bag that is designed to heat up the butter and corn. When the water in the popcorn kernel steams and causes the corn to pop it will be coated with the hot oil butter. I'm not sure what the properties of the plate are but it definately assists in the heating process, must be something with a good dipole moment, this is why the bag is so darn hot. Side note some microwaves even have metal shelves, and they work just fine. With all microwave ovens you're warned not to turn on the oven with nothing inside, this is so the waves of energy are focused on the item in the oven and not the oven itself which is made of metal and other parts that can eventually heat up or electrically arc. Likewise if you just put the coins in or a spoon with no liquid at all bad things will happen, like arcing because the energy has to be released some how. Microwaves would rather work on water than metal anyday!!

Drugstore Hydrogen peroxide is 3% H2O2 and 97% H2O. When we boil peroxide the one oxygen in H2O2 gets released as pure oxygen and leaves water as the other by-product. The pure oxygen is what reacts with the dirt, grim and light green copper (oxidized cooper) and releases them from the surface of the coin to get to the pure copper that is still in the coin. I'd have to review my chemistry a bit more but the dark brown we end up with is the newly oxidized copper. Verdigris green copper is a step further in the oxidation process I believe, and is a point where no more oxygen can get to the bare copper underneath and provides a protective barrior. This whole process of oxidation gives copper products there long life in the elements. Silver is far more resistant to oxidation and this is the reason why this technicue doesn't work as good as it does on copper. If anything it might tarnish (blacken) silver quicker than otherwise. Gold should be unaffected by this or just about anything else for that matter, and is the reason why it is always bright and lustrious forever.

I stand to be corrected and welcome any critique others might have. Disclaimer: It's your microwave so sometimes its best not to listen to fools on the internet, and do what you feel is safe thumbsup01!!

[tanacat]

Okay you convinced me.... :rolleyes: thinking about it, my toddler's food and microwave soups does has a rim of metal that's covered up by the plastic lid. I was nervous about nuking them at first but nothing happened. I had a bit of aluminum foil that sparked and spattered like crazy -freaked me out years ago lol

[coinnut]

lol I was wondering why no arcing? Now I know. Thanks for the update xzlr8n on modern microwaves, I'm from the old days when they told you not to do it! lol 40 seconds? That should be screaming :yes: If it ain't clean after that, it never will be.

[Ill Digger]

In my experiences the green and red crusted and cruddy ones are usually toast.
But the black, brown and dirty ones I'll use the brass brush method. Cleans'em right up thumbsup01

[Huntnfind]

If you want to be real slow about it, some olive oil and a soft tooth brush works really well.

Here's what I do -
Just take the coppers and drop em in some olive oil. Let em sit for a day, flip em, sit for another day - then scrub gently under warm running water, repeat as necessary to remove all that crud!

It works really well for that stuck on crud, but you're looking at a good week to get a coin really shining. Also, it turns them pretty dark, just something to keep in mind.

[tanacat]

Thanks HuntnFind! I did that with my 1851 English Half Cent and did wonders...I now have about 20 wheats soaking in olive oil :)

[Huntnfind]

Great! I can't wait to hear how they all turn out!

[tanacat]

A friend said to leave bad ones in for a month or longer, that slowwwwly takes corrosion off. Have you ever soaked for that long? I'm curious... you see the pics of my green crusty ones above? We'll see how they turn out lol I don't think they have any hope imho.

[coinnut]

A friend said to leave bad ones in for a month or longer, that slowwwwly takes corrosion off. Have you ever soaked for that long? I'm curious... you see the pics of my green crusty ones above? We'll see how they turn out lol I don't think they have any hope imho.


Tana, Olive oil works well for coins that have caked on dirt. Cleaning methods work differently in different parts of the country / soil composition. If your coppers come out of the ground dirty but not really crusty green, then it will work good for you. But up around my neck of the woods, our coppers are shot and no cleaning is gonna help them lol So it's trial and error until you can just look at the coin and say yes it will or nope, it's dogmeat! Olive oil is a slow chemical reaction that may work for you. Try it and see.

[tanacat]

But up around my neck of the woods, our coppers are shot and no cleaning is gonna help them lol

Have you soaked some of your worst coppers just to see if bring out more detail? Handyman (Kevin) says it takes corrosion off, not just dirt...

[coinnut]

Have you soaked some of your worst coppers just to see if bring out more detail? Handyman (Kevin) says it takes corrosion off, not just dirt...


Yea, for my coppers it would take forever. It's a slow process and yes, it will continue to take off the dirt and green, but I ain't that patient. I have had them in there for 6 mos and still didn't get all that green off of them. But you will not like what is under that green lol Sometimes the green hides the pits that are under there. It is worth a try on the different types of conditions your coins are in, (dirt, green, red colors, etc...) They will all clean differently.

[tanacat]

Oh I'll end up tossing them in w/my copper pennies... worth about 2 cents a piece lol
I'm experimenting in hopes of doing best for a wheat with a keydate :cheesysmile: Have you found any/many btw? Ever sold anything? Or is that too personal a question :huh:

[coinnut]

I'm experimenting in hopes of doing best for a wheat with a keydate :cheesysmile: Have you found any/many btw? Ever sold anything? Or is that too personal a question :huh:


Nothing is too personal for millions of people to see lol I'll just make it up ;) No key dates for me yet. Nothing like a 1909 S VDB or a 1916D Merc. Most of my coins are older so I get a lot of oddball overdates but not really considered rare. I never sell anything I find. Might give some away, but I don't sell it. Don't know why though :confused: I hope when you get a key date coin, it will just be dirt on it and you can rinse it clean :clapping: lol

[BOWSER]

i don't plan on selling any coins i find ,but i do like to see the dates for history sake,any metal i find i try to clean also. I use some stuff called Barkeepers Friend either with water as a paste or dry. I usually pay 2.00 a can

[RaZR]

I had some coins that were so crud covered that i knew that i couldn't ruin them. They weren't going to be worth much even if they were rare dates. These were pennies that were green or covered with growths of corrosion. Those got put into the rock tumbler with some aquarium stones water and dishsoap. After tumbling overnight i found one was a wheat. But that was about all you could tell about it. Almost all the details were corroded away. But at least it was shiney! I have also tried the heated peroxide heated in a plastic bottle cap and dropping the penny in. That worked on a better penny i had. But i don't worry too much about hurting the value of wheat pennies by tumbling them. If it's not a rare one.

[giant056]

I usually use hot peroxide to clean mine, sometimes they really look nice as long as the ground hasn't corroded them real bad.

[Nitro 54]

Nice wheat Larry :peace: :peace: thumbsup01

[Carver]

I use peroxide on all my Indians too,,,,,unless I find that 1877 model,,,,then I'm not touching it with anything <: <: <: <:

[giant056]

I use peroxide on all my Indians too,,,,,unless I find that 1877 model,,,,then I'm not touching it with anything <: <: <: <:
This is my most primo shaped Indian this year, I used hot peroxide, soap and water on it.
If they have bronze disease on them you're better off using olive oil I think.

[coinnut]

Nice 1909 VDB. :shocked04: But it seems that hot peroxide took the S right off of it rofl Great Indian too. Soil condition is what really helps them out. Some people are just blessed with good soil and drainage :clapping: I'm not one of them lol

[angellionel]

That wheat cent is in excellent condition, as is the Indian Head cent. Very nice! thumbsup01

[Toadman]

Way cool section !!!

[Carver]

Way cool section !!!


thumbsup01 thumbsup01 thumbsup01 thumbsup01

[tanacat]

Nice 1909 VDB. :shocked04: But it seems that hot peroxide took the S right off of it rofl

rofl rofl rofl Good one George thumbsup01





This is my most primo shaped Indian this year, I used hot peroxide, soap and water on it.
If they have bronze disease on them you're better off using olive oil I think.


I have an 1864 bronze I might clean... I'll post a pic of it later and ask your advice... it might crumble, it's crumbly on the edges... is that the 'bronze disease'? Maybe I should use oil instead if that's the case. It's the first IH I found and special :cheesysmile: I gently washed with dishwashing liquid and put in coin sleeve.

[Judy]

That sure is one heck of a beauty Lar!!!!!!



I gently washed with dishwashing liquid and put in coin sleeve.


I saw on a tv show regarding coin collecting/collectors and from that talked to a few experts on this coin sleeve issue....after cleaning....

Some of the general consensus is, if a coin has any degree of disease or molds, placing in sleeves can accelerate the process even faster even after cleaning. Sometimes just lightly wrapping in acid free tissue is better.

Food for thought...I know I took out a few of my treasures after talking to these folks. :shocked04:

[tanacat]

Some of the general consensus is, if a coin has any degree of disease or molds, placing in sleeves can accelerate the process even faster even after cleaning. Sometimes just lightly wrapping in acid free tissue is better.



Thanks for the advice- I'm pretty new at coin collecting. Arrowhead hunting is my thing :)

So what is this bronze disease? I've never heard of any coin having disease or molds...

[coinnut]

Thanks for the advice- I'm pretty new at coin collecting. Arrowhead hunting is my thing :)

So what is this bronze disease? I've never heard of any coin having disease or molds...


Chlorides (found in the ground) and moisture will continuously dissolve (corrode) the bronze until it is just green powder. Chlorides need to be neutralized for the disease to stop.

[tanacat]

Chlorides (found in the ground) and moisture will continuously dissolve (corrode) the bronze until it is just green powder. Chlorides need to be neutralized for the disease to stop.


... so soak it in something? Or is wrapping in acid free tissue sufficient to neutralize?

[coinnut]

... so soak it in something? Or is wrapping in acid free tissue sufficient to neutralize?


You probably don't have bronze disease, but it would be best to Google it and see more info on it. If you do have it, reverse electrolysis would do the trick (at least it gets rid of chlorides in iron) and then you would have to seal it up (like microcrystaline wax). But chances are you just have the other forms of corrosion, copper alloys go through. It's a list of a bunch of different corrosions that a bronze coin can go through and it's mostly from what is in contact with it in the soil. Putting it in oil would be OK. A 2x2 is ok too. When in doubt...do nothing with it but oil it and put it away.

[cnr_dogs]

I tumble all of mine not gonna ever sell em but want em to look nice for me.

[psychposse]

I experimented with a few things, didn't have much luck with the peroxide trick. Tried the olive oil suggestion and that didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Hot water and some Dawn dishsoap with a toothbrush and Qtips - and patience cleaned a lot of them up pretty good. I also use a tumbler with a coarse grit - let them tumble for a few days.

I experimented with Tarnex and would not recommend that at all.

The wheaties I used tarnex on were black as coal when I found them, you can see some of the black yet in this picture. The tarnex took away that nice penny look.

[tanacat]

I experimented with Tarnex and would not recommend that at all.

The wheaties I used tarnex on were black as coal when I found them, you can see some of the black yet in this picture. The tarnex took away that nice penny look.




A while back I experimented soaking a few wheaties in baking soda water, (accidentally overnight) and the result looks same as what your tarnex did... leached the color.

Here's my 1864, does this look like bronze disease? It's corroding along the edges- not a layer that can be removed but the actual penny itself.



http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_9130.jpg


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_9143.jpg



http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/101_9145.jpg





:confused: It's actually very green (it's on the left) the lighting on those pics make it look brown.

Is there any way to change it back to brown- in real life? lol I guess the lime does it here... I found it next to a gravel driveway.



http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t135/frogtopia/Copyof101_9154.jpg

[coinnut]

Tana, can't really tell by the pictures, but I would say it's just the normal corrosion, although the edges seem a bit eaten. Cleaning copper is the hardest thing to do because each piece is individual. So many different types of corrosion to deal with. If you ever get a chance, get a small jar of renaissance wax from Amazon (or any another place). A little goes a long way. If the coin is clean of most of the dirt, just let it dry well, and give it a small coating (especially the edges) and leave it be. It is a special one to you and you shouldn't be experimenting on that on. That is what Memorials and common Wheats are for lol I like the green patina on some coppers.

[Salty Dog]

Have you tried Tarn-x wipe and rinse,it works on silver,gold platinum,diamonds and of course Copper,you can get it at Kroger,mine cost $5.99 for a big bottle,it will make them shine like a new penny :beerbuddy:,good luck,dave

[giant056]

I wouldn't use any more than just dish soap and a toothbrush on that one tanacat. Bronze disease is a bright green and that's not it. If you haven't use olive oil on it, you can if there's still some dirt you can't get off with soap, once you soaked it in olive oil you can then use the toothbrush and soap.

[Ill Digger]

I wouldn't touch it at all...anymore lol
All most every IH I've found is green like that. I personally like it :yes:
It looks good the way it is Although the edges are eaten up quite a bit...I've found some with that...but not as bad.
Of course being in the ground for 146 years...I'd say it held up pretty darn good thumbsup01

[tanacat]

Of course being in the ground for 146 years...I'd say it held up pretty darn good thumbsup01


Very true! But I found my 1820 LC (190 yrs old) nearby and it looks near mint condition! It was at base of big old oak tree - not near the gravel. Interesting how soil plays such a role - the 1901 IH in pic above, I found at the base of several coniferous trees and it looks great. I'd think the acidity of the needles would be damaging...

[giant056]

Tanacat I found another Indian the same day that I found the 1892 Indian posted earlier in this thread and the other Indian was only about 20 - 30 feet away in the same kind of dirt but badly corroded, it just didn't make a bit of sense, my brother even commented when I found them that the one was beautiful and the other one was terrible.

[tanacat]

Tana, can't really tell by the pictures, but I would say it's just the normal corrosion, although the edges seem a bit eaten. Cleaning copper is the hardest thing to do because each piece is individual. So many different types of corrosion to deal with. If you ever get a chance, get a small jar of renaissance wax from Amazon (or any another place). A little goes a long way. If the coin is clean of most of the dirt, just let it dry well, and give it a small coating (especially the edges) and leave it be. It is a special one to you and you shouldn't be experimenting on that on. That is what Memorials and common Wheats are for lol I like the green patina on some coppers.


This one is an 1864 of the L variety is why I'm so concerned... :)

Oops, I soaked it in olive oil for a few days but I think it looks better. It took a lot of the green color away & looking less 'dug' now. I'll show another pic soon. I'll do what you say about the wax. Should I put in air tight container next? I've never had a coin special enuff to do it. Well except maybe my coppers.

What do you do with all your coppers G? I bet you have in a nice display case now?

[coinnut]

What do you do with all your coppers G?



I usually dangle them in front of Del and watch his reaction :loveit: :loveit: :loveit:. Most coppers don't have any disease on them, so I lightly clean them and put them in 2x2's. I then keep them in metal boxes used for film slides. The slots fit nicely for 2x2's and I can store 125 in each of them. Here's some pictures of just the Large Cent / Half Cent box.

[tanacat]

Very cool- thanks for sharing this great idea thumbsup01 I never asked/saw how you stored your finds. How about your silvers, buttons, relics, etc? lol I'm sure if I look back in this section (storage/cleaning) far enough I'll find an answer... :)

Just realized I haven't frequented this section much and I've been around here for coming up on a year! Being pretty new to MDing, I'm just now accumulating enough stuff where I feel the need to look into storage... ramble ramble lol

[coinnut]

Very cool- thanks for sharing this great idea thumbsup01 I never asked/saw how you stored your finds. How about your silvers, buttons, relics, etc? lol


I store the silvers the same way, but want to take the better grade ones and slab them myself. I bought 200 (I think) slabs for $99.00 of various sizes so that I clould slab, label and grade them myself. The other stuff stays in boxes and eventually will reside in the Riker boxes that are cheap and still look good.

[tanacat]

I bought 200 (I think) slabs for $99.00 of various sizes so that I clould slab, label and grade them myself.

:shocked04: You can do that?? I thought you had to be 'professonally officiated' to do that or whatever... lol

[giant056]

That explains why I have see some slabbed coins on Ebay that sure don't look up to snuff in my book but then when you look at the place grading it you can see it's just what someone made up themselves.

[coinnut]

:shocked04: You can do that?? I thought you had to be 'professonally officiated' to do that or whatever... lol


Democracy at it's best. lol When someone can make a buck selling something, it will be for sale :yes: Besides that, they are made in China :ticked: Bought them on E Bay and they are snap together cases that are the same look as the slabs.



That explains why I have see some slabbed coins on Ebay that sure don't look up to snuff in my book but then when you look at the place grading it you can see it's just what someone made up themselves.


Yep, that's them. It can lead to someone buying just a fancy sealed, over graded coin :mad: