Patina or Green Gunk?

[OxShoeDrew]

Hello everyone, I found this Machin's Mills 1-47a about a year ago and want to sell it. Should I give it a peroxide bath? Do I want to remove the green layer or is that patina? Thanks, Drew

[Thiltzy]

It looks like it wants to flake off anytime. The layer looks thick.

Here is a pic of my 1778 Machin's Mills I dug last year in which I sent it away to get restored. I told them to leave what ever patina was on it and this is what it looks like with patina and a renz wax buff.

[OxShoeDrew]

Looks good....do you have a pic before you sent it?
Did it enhance the value? Wanna buy mine? lol

[Thiltzy]

Dunno if it enhanced the value ut I basically just wanted all remaining dirt removed then the renz wax just to preserve it. here is the dirty pics with an old camera

[RobW]

Where did you send it to get restored?

I have a 1796 LC I want cleaned up, but I'm afraid to touch it.


On your coin, it looks if you touch it you may lose the details

[del]

Drew if you plan on selling it , theres two things you can do ...
1. don't do anything to it and sell it to a collector or dealer as is ( you might get very lowballed on the price by the collector or dealer because he doesn't know what to expect from the outcome of the coin's condition on a professional cleaning and then he might have to pay to have it graded as well )

or 2. get it professionally cleaned and graded yourself (it might cost you a bit more but the dealer or collector can't despute the coin's appearance and possible value to much)



Dunno if it enhanced the value ut I basically just wanted all remaining dirt removed then the renz wax just to preserve it. here is the dirty pics with an old camera


Todd i'd still like to see that coin in person sometime :yes: i really don't think he did a bad job he definately didn't over do it which i think is a good thing.

[OxShoeDrew]

Thanks everyone, I guess I'll start to shop it around as is. :crossfingers:

[del]

Thanks everyone, I guess I'll start to shop it around as is. :crossfingers:


Hey Drew Iron Patch on another forum knows a few dealers , he might even buy it from you himself. pm me if you need to know more info.

Dan

[Thiltzy]

Todd i'd still like to see that coin in person sometime :yes: i really don't think he did a bad job he definately didn't over do it which i think is a good thing.
Dan, remind me the next time we hunt to bring the coin

[OxShoeDrew]

Hey Drew Iron Patch on another forum knows a few dealers , he might even buy it from you himself. pm me if you need to know more info.

Dan

Thanks Dan, I'll contact him. You and he were the ones to identify this coin last year.

[Sal66]

:congrats: Nice find ! I totally agree with what Dan says . Once that patina is gone the coin will lose the detail, it locks the detail together. I had that issue with my 2 centers. I left all the patina on them and put a wax on to hold it all together. You can see my Trio of 2 cents in My Finds section.
The other thing you said was that it looks like the Patina wants to just flake off. That might just happen on it's own an if so then you'll just have to go from there if it happens. The wax idea is good if your not going to clean it, but if selling, you might want to leave it up to the buyer what to do. Do you have a price in mind ?

Goo Luck, Sal

[OxShoeDrew]

:congrats: Nice find ! I totally agree with what Dan says . Once that patina is gone the coin will lose the detail, it locks the detail together. I had that issue with my 2 centers. I left all the patina on them and put a wax on to hold it all together. You can see my Trio of 2 cents in My Finds section.
The other thing you said was that it looks like the Patina wants to just flake off. That might just happen on it's own an if so then you'll just have to go from there if it happens. The wax idea is good if your not going to clean it, but if selling, you might want to leave it up to the buyer what to do. Do you have a price in mind ?

Goo Luck, Sal
Sal, I've tried to formulate a price but there just isn't much precedent to be found. The one coin I found for sale online was a lot of money, but it was cleaned and you could see what was exactly on the coin. The green layer is hiding the exact details of my coin. I'm leaning forward sending it out for professional cleaning/grading.

[del]

Sal, I've tried to formulate a price but there just isn't much precedent to be found. The one coin I found for sale online was a lot of money, but it was cleaned and you could see what was exactly on the coin. The green layer is hiding the exact details of my coin. I'm leaning forward sending it out for professional cleaning/grading.


Drew , i've seen a few send their excavated colonials to be cleaned and graded before and the coins came back in worse shape or nothing done to them at all. A friend's higley copper comes to mind , he sent it in to be cleaned and graded and it came back with less detail on it. for one they won't risk ruining the coin or they aren't very familiar with cleaning coins with heavy crusty soil glued to it. they usually don't get coins like this they are use to preserving whats already there , theres a lot of detectorists i would trust more to clean a coin than a place like a coin grading outfit. if you do get it cleaned Drew please let us have a look before and after .

Dan

[Sal66]

Just something to put out there. I thought grading services won't grade Dug Coins ? The will Net Grade it, for instance it may say VG Details - Cleaned , but not an actual grade.
I know a guy who has been into Coin Collecting for 30 years. He even has a website. I would send a pic to him for his opinion. He's really knows his stuff. His name is Daniel and the website is coinauctionshelp.com
I totally trust his opinions. I can talk to him first if you want. He actually is a member here also but doesn't visit that often. Just let me know if you want my help.
Take Care

[OxShoeDrew]

Thanks guys, Sal...that is a nice site, I've bookmarked it. That guy buys and sells?

[Sal66]

Drew, I think he's more of a collector and his website is informational . I asked him about his connection to Ebay an he said he's something like a Middleman for them . People from what I guess are linked to his site who sell on Ebay and he must make a percentage of the sale, I've never heard of this so I would have to get more of a clearer explanation from him. All I know is he makes a living off this. He really knows about coins and has written a small Book on buying and selling on Ebay. I don't want to say anymore because I may be totally wrong, I just know he's connected Ebay somehow. I'll ask him again so I get the story 100% correct.

[Rondoutcreek]

Just wondering how you wax your coins to seal the patina , THANKS

[del]

Just wondering how you wax your coins to seal the patina , THANKS


Roundoutcreek , i use Renaissance wax its a microcrystaline wax many museums use . first i will clean off the loose dirt and prep the coin or item (because i will use this on some of the relic finds too) to where i'm comfortable as to how it looks to be preserved . then generously apply the wax , usually with a clean cloth or napkin ( you could eve do it with a q-tip) , wipe as much excess wax off as possible and then after it looks dried buff it well with a short haired hobby brush . the items and coins come out with a nice hued sheen to them .

[Mayadigger]

Drew if you plan on selling it , theres two things you can do ...
1. don't do anything to it and sell it to a collector or dealer as is ( you might get very lowballed on the price by the collector or dealer because he doesn't know what to expect from the outcome of the coin's condition on a professional cleaning and then he might have to pay to have it graded as well )

or 2. get it professionally cleaned and graded yourself (it might cost you a bit more but the dealer or collector can't despute the coin's appearance and possible value to much)

Todd i'd still like to see that coin in person sometime :yes: i really don't think he did a bad job he definately didn't over do it which i think is a good thing.


Ave! Pretty sure that I was the one who restored Todd's coin. ;-)

Having coins cleaned and graded from the same source sounds like a conflict of interest, but that's just me and what do I know?

Anyway, preserving patina on American Colonial issues can be a very iffy project, even for professionals. Unlike ancient Greek/Roman AE issues that have spent ages building up an intact patina beneath the earth, Colonial's tend to have thin/weak patinas, or worse, bronze disease, dependent upon the soil conditions. For instance, a few months ago, we received an early 1800's US Cent that in hand, appeared to be a simple clean off the dirt, wax and flip issue. Sadly, beneath both surfaces, we discovered that the coin was so shot with BD that there was nothing we could do to restore it. Nothing.

Best regards,

Kevin

[del]

Ave! Pretty sure that I was the one who restored Todd's coin. ;-)



Yes Kevin that was you who did Todd's Coin , this was before i got a chance to see the counterfiet in person .




Having coins cleaned and graded from the same source sounds like a conflict of interest, but that's just me and what do I know?

Anyway, preserving patina on American Colonial issues can be a very iffy project, even for professionals. Unlike ancient Greek/Roman AE issues that have spent ages building up an intact patina beneath the earth, Colonial's tend to have thin/weak patinas, or worse, bronze disease, dependent upon the soil conditions. For instance, a few months ago, we received an early 1800's US Cent that in hand, appeared to be a simple clean off the dirt, wax and flip issue. Sadly, beneath both surfaces, we discovered that the coin was so shot with BD that there was nothing we could do to restore it. Nothing.

Best regards,

Kevin


very interesting info Kevin and agree about the weak or thin patina on our colonial coins we find here , here in New England there is such a wide variety of condition these coins can be in and in most cases they are too far gone before much can save them .

Dan